Ultralisk/defiler idea

I was thinking about how the zerg needed another spell caster in SC 2 and came up with this.

swarm-cost 100 power: all zerg units within a certain radius of units casting this get 1.5 times more speed and 2x more attack for 10 seconds.

plague-cost 150 power: all enemies within casting range take 150 damage over 5 seconds from spell.

rage-cost 100 power: unit gains 2x attack for 30 seconds.

I was thinking it could be the replacement for the defiler from SC 1. In another forum, poeple stated that you would need an overlord nearby to control it, or it would run wild, which I think is a good idea.

The unit would have life and attack points the same as the ultralisk from SC1 but can cast spells, with a total power of 200 points. However, its spells would make it a much more powerful unit for the zerg to use.

 

The idea sounds OK, but when you say super unit? do you them mean t4 unit? like Thor or mothership. Because then i think it is a bit to weak I mean, none of those beats planet craker

 

NO.  Combat units should have high stats but relatively small abilities if any.  Casters should be a separate class with low stats but powerful abilities.

The abilities of the defiler are very powerful.  Even just putting plague on a armored unit is bad since it bypasses shields and can destroy Terran buildings by pushing them into the red plus only terrans can counter it so it is free damage.

 

Thats why I'm saying it should by tier 4 , it combines the best of both classes into a single unit. The protoss has the mighty mothership, terran has the thor, the zerg need something that emphasizes the best of the zerg's abilities in combat.

 

I also dislike the idea of too many abilities. Casters should not be combat units, as you may choose to keep them on the back and hot-key their abilities, keeping them in a separate group as well. Having them in attack mode creates a doubt of their roles, makes them closer to heroes. Mothership is a strong caster, but not a hero. It is a support unit, not all in one.

 

Not every race has to have a super unit. The point of the zerg is to NOT have super powerful units but to mass cheap (weak) units and win through numbers.

Besides the Defiler and Ultra are already top tier units both dangerous enough by themselves. The way powerful abilities are balanced is by putting them on weak units. If plague is on a 500 HP unit or psi storm comes on an archon what is to stop the enemy from annihalating your army unchallenged?

 

Yea, and the idea in SC is large army's against large army's, not a large army getting beaten by a single unit

 

Definitely not!
The Ultralisk, being a melee combat unit/tanker, relied on its masses and masses of health, extremely high armor, and relatively strong attack. It was extremely powerful and in certain situations, like attacking a new outpost or intercepting a small attack force, it didn't need any major backup from the Swarm. It was not able to Burrow, due to its size, which led to it being an aggressive unit, and it had a speed upgrade that allowed it to lead the assault at the front of the Swarm. Also, not being able to Burrow meant that it was a unit that was not used in ambushes or surprise attacks.
On the other side of the equation was the Defiler. The Defiler was a unit that had no attack, and it was able to take down specific areas relatively quickly, due to Plague but relies on backup from the rest of the army to be able to finish off any units or buildings (except for Terran Buildings that could burn down). If it ran out of Energy it had to devour other small swarming Zerg units (ideally Zerglings) to regenerate its Energy. If it got 'found out' it was easily dispatched, and it had to its ability to Burrow was always needed for it to be able to find cover. Apart from needing the Swarm to back it up, the Swarm needed it to back them up, especially with Dark Swarm.
Long story short, the Ultralisk was a heavily independent units, with a strong attack and no major abilities, and the Defiler was a units that depended heavily on other friendly units, had no attack but plenty of strong abilities. I couldn't think of a stranger combination of units to combine, maybe the Battlecruiser with an SCV, but at least even they can both attack.
Also, (I have made this statement a lot) the Zerg should not have any super-unit, or even any large unit. The Ultralisk should be the largest unit in the Swarm and should be able to dwarf all others. The Zerg are a massing style army, so they should not be given any unit like the Thor, Mothership, Battlecruiser, Carrier, or Colossus, that are extremely powerful on their own. Zerg players should never feel that their army has suffered a significant loss if any specific unit dies.

 

Well if the defiller of an attacking army died the Zerg player would feel a significant loss.

 

Alright, I get it, my idea is no good. I just thought I'd throw something out there for discussion, didn't think it would be thrashed to pieces so mercilessly. Obviously, I didn't know what I was talking about thinking this might have been a good idea.

@ItzaHexGor, how do you plan for the zergs mighty army to beat planet cracker then, that spell would destroy the whole army in a matter of seconds, especially if it had backup support from land units in an assult.

 

Your idea isn't useless. If you look through most of the forums, most people say they want the zerg to be cheap and disposable with little individual significance.

This is an interesting basic play mechanic, most just don't like the fact that it deviates from their specific view of what a 'Zerg' is.
Don't lose your imagination!!!

 

Yeah, don't loose your imagination. No matter what, you must not feel bad about ideas that go wrong, and get back up with others. These are just ideas, might and might not work.


Now, answering you question about Planet Cracker: scourges? I mean, now that we can select as many units we can, using scourges will be a lot easier, specially if they don't waste themselves anymore, exploding in excess to kill a specific target. If they fix it so after the HP has reached 0 no other Scourge can detonate for nothing, groups of units will be so much easier to kill with micro. Not some crazy "10 different 5 scourge control groups" micro that gets in the way of the rest, you know?

The thing that scares me is the Overcharge mechanics. That would surely take a lot of scourges from the skies in the hands of skilled player. Zerg need another way of attacking the sky besides scourges. And Devourers aren't it.

 

well, we dont really know what to expect from Zerg in SC2, they might get some pretty powerful (atleast when massed) flying units.

 

I wasn't, I just wasn't expecting such negavite feedback from it. I personally thought it was pretty good to try and compine both strngths in the zerg's army into a single unit to rival the power of the protoss MS and terran thor.

 

The Defiler is cheap and easily replaceable though. It only costs 50 Minerals and 150 Vespene Gas. The Defiler is a strong aspect or the Zerg Swarm, but it isn't a super strong unit like this Ultralisk/Defiler is supposed to be.

The idea isn't just plain crap, it's an alright idea and you've obviously thought it through. The only thing is that I don't feel it would suit Zerg. Zerg need diversity in their units, so I don't think combining a whole lot of the roles/units would be a good idea. Also, this unit seems incredibly powerful to be a single unit on the Zerg team.

Planet Cracker has been changed since its first appearance. Now, it is a single beam, not a huge area of effect like it used to be, and has to be moved in order to attack other units/areas. I feel that Zerg players would need to micro their units well so that when the Planet Cracker ability is used, the Zerg's units are in relatively spaced out groups. This way the Mothership would have to waste a lot of the Planet Cracker's duration time traveling to and from different groups of units. Although this would obviously be a much feared attack to the Zerg player, it would be feared by all players. I almost feel that this ability would actually be most effective against Protoss and their Colossus. The Colossus isn't able to outrun the Mothership, and is also extremely powerful and expensive, so it would easily be picked out and taken down by other Protoss players.

 

Why do they keep downsizing the MS, Everything they change makes it worse. First black hole got swapped for a cloaking ability, it loses its AA attack ability, and now planet cracker gets downsized to a single puny beam? The MS is supposed to be able to destroy planets, not a support unit.

And everyone knows cloaking is almost useless in later game when everyone has detectors, so that power wont help too much. Why is the MS's abilities basically getting stripped down to basics just for balance reasons? Blizzard should turn the thing back into a super unit with its original abilities and everyone will be much happier for it.

 

Cloaking IS useful in late games, as it creates a problem for enemies attacking you. If it is protoss, the cloaked army can destroy observers. Cloaked Carriers can take down Photon cannons from an undetected distance. Detection Sweep works for a brief period of time. Overlords have the same fate as Observers. It is a massive defensive ability, that only works together with groups of units.

Cloak ability is really cool. I was feeling sorry for it being transferred to a minor unit like Stasis Orb.

 

cloaking only really helps ranged units, the dark templar is almost useless once detection is set up since they die so easily. I just wish the cloak ability gets given to another unit and the black hole returns, or at least given its AA attack back.

 

The idea is OK, the rage ability is very cool

 

I thought it was pretty cool, but I just can't think of any spells that feels zerg like that can match the MS's current abilities.