[TvZ] How to defeat Baeling > Zergling rush?

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Strategy Discussion' started by bradbradallen, Mar 20, 2010.

[TvZ] How to defeat Baeling > Zergling rush?

  1. Hello all,

    I'm wondering how to best combat the Baeling > Zergling rush as Terran. I watched some Battle Reports where DKim played much differently that I seem to be playing. He didn't re-enforce his choke with supply depots, as I do, and he went heavy starport / barracks, and not much in the factory. I seem to be doing the most of my work in the factory.

    It seems when I try to guard my base with Supply Depots, the baelings are able to get up and blow up my choke defense then rush in with Zerglings for the kill.

    How do I best combat this?
     
  2. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    Still build the choke, but put in one bunker on the larger side of the choke. This will force his banelings to attack the bunker, wasting their damage on a 100 mineral building with 400 HP and since the building is attacking them, they will go for the bunker first rather than your units.

    This should repel the initial attack.

    Also, going with two factories, one pumping Hellions and one pumping tanks (then use this factory's tech lab to research the +10 damage for Hellion) will completely counter the Banelings + Zerglings.
    The hellion will do 22 damage against light units, making them 3-shot banelings and 2-shot zerglings. GG. Then move on to tanks because it's likely the Zerg will go either Hydras or Mutalisk.

    And you need to push them as early as possible.
     
  3. lurkers_lurk

    lurkers_lurk New Member

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    Jon, I don't think the first part is quite viable. I believe Banelings have a distinct attacking AI, when they are told to a move to a certain area they will only attack units, but they also have a separate attack command that forces them to only attack buildings. But then again I don't have Beta to test this.
     
  4. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    Nah most people just hit "attack-move" and it hits the bunker. It's because the bunker is firing back. It has a higher threat level than the regular marines, etc.
     
  5. lurkers_lurk

    lurkers_lurk New Member

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    But what would you do if they attack-buildings move?
     
  6. _Tetsuo_

    _Tetsuo_ New Member

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    MM + bunker in the choke. That should do it. Repel the first wave... and FE in most maps. PF is too strong and can hold almost anything.
     
  7. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    @ lurkers,

    That's exactly the point. The idea is to get the bunker to absorb the damage instead of your units behind the line.

    It's not the initial breaking of the wall that does you in, it's the casualties you take trying to minimize the damage. If all the banelings go ONE direction and only take out one side of the wall (and spend all their extra damage on the bunker rather than your Marines/Marauders) you should still be able to contain the flow of Zerglings that comes behind.
     
  8. lurkers_lurk

    lurkers_lurk New Member

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    The bunker thing does not work. The nearby Supply Depos still die easily and then the Zerglings just run by and head for the workers.

    But I have seen a different wallin that does seemed to work, you build two barracks at the top of the ramp/choke and then build a factory behind them to seal the small gap.
     
  9. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    Yeah but you don't want your production buildings taking the brunt either.

    The bunker does work when supported by your Marines/Marauders. The Banelings will only attack the side of the wall that the Bunker is behind. Therefore you'll lose the supply depot, the bunker, and maybe a couple Marines. But your entire wall won't go down so you can use the rest of your force to contain the Zerglings as they come up the ramp.
     
  10. _Tetsuo_

    _Tetsuo_ New Member

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    When you see lings comming, just move 1 or 2 scvs to repair the Supply depots.
    The opponent needs TO MUCH lings to break it this way. The bunker think does work!

    See ya!
     
  11. lurkers_lurk

    lurkers_lurk New Member

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    Jon, I think I see the problem. You are going for small mass MnM at the beginning then teching towards Hellions+Tanks. While in my mind you build a marine maybe two before going for Hellions. Using the production buildings for a wallin is fine when the Zerg try to use Banelings to break inside. They would have to get something close to 16 Banelings to break that. Which would hurt Zergs econ and unit count, and allows you time to build up enough Hellions to stop that.

    Tetsuo, The main problem is the Banelings, they deal so much damage that the Terrrans can't repair in time.
     
  12. _Tetsuo_

    _Tetsuo_ New Member

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    Hummm! But using banelings to break the wall is not that smart!. H has a hard hit in his ecom...so u can defend against the lings (at least i think).

    Im not into beta! But i saw a lot of strategy VODs. I never saw a good terran get destroyed by early lins+blings!

    Scout the lings+blings => mass some MM => bunker => tech => expand => kill. =D

    does it work?

    See ya
     
  13. lurkers_lurk

    lurkers_lurk New Member

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    Banelings does 80 points of damage, and Supply depos only have 300 health in Starcraft 2. Only 4 Banelings are need to bust them, which only cost 200 minerals and 100 gas, which I don't think is that much of a hit to Zergs econ. and I believe at this early in the game, you don't really want to lose supply or you will go into the red. So you either make a bulkier wall, or a Bunker while building up your MnM a little.

    Anything after that is all up to the player. Just that while you are teching, so is Zerg, or he is expanding to flood you.
     
  14. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    In my experience the Bunker would be a better option.

    I'll give the double Barracks block a try.
     
  15. statikg

    statikg New Member

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    I am facing zergs who come in with a few banglings blows up your wall then rushes in with a mix of banelings and lings and massacres my MnM. Very difficult to stop. Not sure how to go about it. The obvious solution is fast tech to tanks, but that significantly slows my early army and im not convinced that 1 tank would even help.
     
  16. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    Read this thread and you should have plenty of ideas on how to counter. ;)
     
  17. Warmor

    Warmor Guest

    Only downside is if it's pre-scouted and micro'd. Use the correct amount of banelings per building +1 or 2 (incase the first couple get shot down), having them attack each building, then shift-clicked to attack the next building on the wall.
    Also to do this if they have other building/expo below the ramp, just move click them to right below the ramp, followed by a attack building shift click toward base....but personally I think queueing up those banelings to attack each building in the wall is ideal to get it open.
    Only problem might be the double barracks block, where I have to make a hard choice. I can for sure bring down a bunker or supply depot and that's all, creating still just a small choke point, or I could try and take down a barracks, which could lift off after I lose several banelings and still have somone of a choke to work with.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2010
  18. fischbs

    fischbs New Member

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    I have also had a lot of trouble against this build as a Terran player. I usually make the standard x2 depot x1 barracks wall in at the beginning along with my army massing behind it.

    Most games I've lost I ask how to counter this build. Of those who have responded, ALL of their responses have been about building a better wall off. One suggested not using supply depots, but factories and barracks. Another suggested simply using MORE depots.

    Jon, your first post is confusing to me. You say to put the bunker on the "larger" side of the wall, but I never have a "large" side -- its usually a rax in the middle with a single depot on both sides.

    Clearly the key to countering a Baneling rush from both Jon's posts and all of my in-game feedback after losing is to construct a heartier wall. How you do this is apparently up to you -- Jon suggests bunkers, which have more HP than depots and can house marines to fire from them and absorb some hits without getting insta-gibbed. Others have suggested factories and barracks, or just more depots.

    Keep in mind that siege tanks gib Banelings in one shot once they're deployed. If you build a good choke and have some Siege Tanks to defend it, then you won't get penetrated by a baneling push into your base, ever. However, the problem is that most baneling rushes occur before you can rush out at least two siege tanks with siege mode researched, so you need to survive the first wave first with a strong wall in.

    MAKE SURE YOU BUILD A MISSILE TURRET BY YOUR WALL IN! I have had SEVERAL clever zerg players feign disinterest in my wall, and after I amass my bio force I begin to move out, only to see an army of banelings uproot themselves from underneath my army right outside my choke and obliterate it, followed by cleanup lings that quickly penetrate the wall and end the game. If you EVER camp inside your base, make SURE you either scan out front after a long period of peace or you build a detector, either way, make sure you don't get stomped on by a smart player using burrow!

    tl;dr: Build a better wall!
     
  19. MeisterX

    MeisterX Hyperion

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    @ Fisch,

    By "larger side" I mean the side that attacking units will prefer with their pathing. This is usually the "up" side which is slightly larger because of the way the Barracks sits on the wall. Here's an image:

    [​IMG]

    If you put your bunker on this end it will absorb more of the damage.

    But I've lately been moving toward a mech build with quick Hellions which absolutely eat Banelings.
     
  20. fischbs

    fischbs New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. :)