Tier 1 Anti Air

Not counting the queen, Zerg are the only race that don't have a tier-1 anti-air unit. I'm probably not making the most efficient defense against void rays or banshees, but does anything think that Hydras should be available before lair upgrade like in BW? Or if not Hydras, that some weaker AA unit is created for tier 1? Terran have marines, toss have stalkers, but Zerg seem especially vulnerable to any early air attacks.

 

Air is first opened for in tier 2. Therefore, you have as big a chance as your opponent to get air or anti-air. And the queen will, as you said, be able to hold off small numbers of air units.

 

True, but it just seems like Toss can get out Void Rays before Zerg player can reasonably get out Hydras or mutas. Toss can also wall off, while zerg have to defend w/ units which reduces ability to go straight tech. I guess I just have to get more gas earlier b/c if I go roaches to defend against z's my tech is always pretty far behind.

 

I agree with you. I think this is actually the reason why banshee, void rays work so good against zerg. Because we don't have Tier-1 anti-air units! You can mass stalkers or marines which will be always useful no matter what your opponent produces, but massing roaches is a great risk as they can not attack air and their range are just pathetic. I truly miss the time when hydra is just 75/25 rather than 100/50 and tier-2 units (The HP is the same though, lame) !! Playing as a zerg now really requires a really high APM (my APM is barely 100, but my opponent as toss or terran does not even reach 60 most of the time.)

On the other hand, zerg is the race that only has one true range attacker --- hydra. Roaches just have 3, brood lords are tier-3 units. The supposedly mighty beast ultralisk is just cannon fodder in front of immortal and thor, well actually even marauders can kick their asses.

 

Zerg is meant for the air. If I were you I'd focus my Zerg builds around a Mutalisk tech and adapt it from there instead of vice versa.

 

If your against Toss rushing to hydras can help alot. A Hydra heavy zergling roach mix can beat any Toss ground force unless you walk straight into a choke point and get ten forcefields up your ***. Don't be afraid to use spore crawlers if you know they are going air (though they did get a pretty big nerf last patch).

Massed marines and stalkers are always useful but very easy to counter especially as zerg. I used to think the hydra was useless but they just do so much damage and can solo stalkers which have twice their health.

 

K I'll try going to straight hydras next time I play. As far as basing strat around mutas, I usually would go ling>muta>ultra in bw and center everything around muta harass, but with the slower mutas in sc2 and the blink ability of stalkers I'm having trouble making it work against toss.

 

Well I had mass hydra today against a zerg player and he massed banelings, took them all out, and then took some mutas to my minerals. A baneling and hydra, or baneling and muta combo would probably be great against anything, with upgrades and careful micro and scouting that is.

 

I just tried a couple of games centered on muta yesterday against zerg and terran, they all worked pretty well. But I usually do not have any problems against zerg (like 90% win) or terran (>60%), toss is the race I am truly struggling with. Unlike terran, toss's stalkers are truly threat to muta, and going to muta would usually mean a lot of lings and maybe a few roaches, which can be easily crushed by protoss sentries/zealot/stalker or even immortals. I guess sentries are the major problem here as their presence seriously impact the efficiency of either lings or roaches.

 

i think against toss, it would be best to mix in a few broodlords with the roaches/banes to help rape toss ground units especially the sentries

 

I don't know if it has been said, but don't be afraid to use Queens as AA early game, making more then you need to support Spawn Larvae. TLO won a game against White-Ra (I believe, it could have been another match up.) in the HDH Invitationals, by making queens to defend against a somewhat early Void Ray push. In the end he won, and had seven queens, which are surprisingly good for early AA. You can also use them to make super quick creep highways after that.

 

i also usually have those numbers of queen while i'm against protoss and i've seen an early stargate after they have walled up their base, usually against that strat I use mass mutas with around 5 broodlords, mutas just rape protoss air period.

 

When I am not sure about enemy tech I build another queen at each of my hatcheries

If the enemy does not pull air on you, you can always use them to spread creep faster or heal units/defend hatcheries against ground assaults.

And I noticed mutas in sufficient numbers rape toss. But I think that is mostly because it is easier to focus fire with mutas then it is for the enemy to focus fire you back.

Only two units I noticed that rape mutas back are Hydra and Stimpacked marines in sufficient numbers, although if you can distract them long enough to get to their middle and focus fire a few of them the splash damage should move the battle in your direction.

 

I love Stim Packed Marines when I go Muta.

It's so easy to make them essentially kill themself, or at least waste Medivac Energy for bigger battles, by darting in and out of their range.

Yeah, Muta is for sure the way to go against Toss if they don't go for some sort of early Phoenix, or pure Stalker/Sentry build. It's just that FF is easier for your Mutas then it is for his Sentry/Stalkers.

 

Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0eu0VRyM-4&feature=channel

Outstanding map and great play there by TLO. I was really surprised at how he managed to hold it off, but enuf of that or it would be a spoiler.

The most critical thing is scouting the Stargate before it finishes of course, otherwise you are dead. Be sure to scout all around the map, especially the corners, as protoss can easily sneak the gate there and pretty much win.

 

Very nice replay. Definitely going to start utilizing queens more until I can get hydras or mutas on the field. They are pretty expensive but since they don't require larvae I suppose I can keep pumping drones from my hatches.

 

people are actually pushing for the roach-hydra swap, bringing hydras back to 75/25 and 8 damage, roaches to tier 2 + all the nerfed abilities in the past (with +1 base armor only)

 

I only play zerg now, and I always get hydralisks. As soon as my queen is built, I immediately tech to lair. They are such badass units (especially fully upgraded), I even use them to support my mutalisks against pheonix and vikings. I am in copper league, so most players just get mass air (especially void rays when against protoss players) which my hydras end up annihilating.

@Arc - I wonder how that would play out. Hydras are really powerful as they are now, I don't even bother with roaches most of the time, and if I do, it is just support units, but the bulk of my army usually consists of mass hydralisks.

 

well it would still be the same, it would definitely weaken hydras (obviously) but the swap would definitely improve the zerg game per se

they should give back some of the roaches' past abilities

 

You mean when the roach had ultra fast regeneration? That was the only ability it had that I can recall, but now it can do that when it is burrowed. Blizzard has stated that they made said change because it required players to have more micro skill to fully utilize the roach.