The Terran Good, Bad & Ugly...

Discussion in 'Terran' started by NateSMZ, Nov 9, 2007.

The Terran Good, Bad & Ugly...

Discussion in 'Terran' started by NateSMZ, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    It is increasingly difficult to discuss unit concepts without considering a factions armed forces as a whole. Suggesting that a particular unit be changed, nerfed or boosted in some manner inevitably hinges on some other unit being changed in another complimentary way...

    And so, as an updated (and hopefully improved) version of my previous "Terran Unit Roster: A Review", I submit to your consideration (and editorial power) The Terran Good, Bad & Ugly. It is hoped that this guide will combine fan feedback in one coherent place regarding what units we like as is, what units we want tweaked as well as how, and what units we want scrapped and/or added. I've included many suggestions which are not mine, but which I support. Unfortunately, I seldom remember who I precisely heard these ideas from. If you see a suggestion which you originally thought of, just drop a note in your post, and I'll make sure you get credit.


    The Good: (units in this section need little or no basic concept work to fit well)

    Marine - Marines are pretty much perfect. No balanced Terran force can avoid using them, which means they don't need any changes. A few potential additions exist, and there is a legitimate reason to slightly add to the units capabilities. One of the main Terran themes is their superior adaptability. With that in mind, let's consider the Marine official and potential fan-suggested additions. Keep in mind that the Marine retains their normal U-238 and Stim Pack upgrades as well.

    Shield + Bayonet: This is an official upgrade for the Marine. It adds 15 hit points, and graphically makes the Marine appear to be ready for melee combat if necessary. Fans seem to be split over this change. The graphical change makes Marines appear more like a Roman Legionaire progression rather than an American Infantryman. Factually, the usefulness of a physical shield and melee weapon against opponents, who prefer hand-to-hand combat and are capable of engaging thusly, is supported. However, an element which harkens more to fantasy concepts than sci-fi ones is a bit dubious. My suggestion would be to therefore keep the basic idea, but change the appearance. The shields should have a futuristic looking design, perhaps modeled after the clear riot shield style. Click here for picture.The bayonet could also be modernized with vibrating technology, similar to vibroblades found in Star Wars. Click here for picture.

    Dig Trenches: This is a fan suggested ability for Marines. It would allow the Marine to alter terrain to make a Trench which could be used as cover if occupied (much like trees and cliffs), or to slow down an enemy advance, if unoccupied. Trenches could be paired with Bunkers, Planetary Fortresses and Supply Depots to make a comprehensive defense system. Trenches would not stop advancing units, but they would slow their speed while crossing. Trenches would not be permanent terrain changes, and would disappear if not occupied after a moderate delay. Any infantry unit could enter a Trench, but only Marines could dig them. Each section of Trench would only hold a single soldier. It would take a slight delay to both enter and exit a Trench. Enemies who entered the Trench would negate the cover advantage, but only one enemy could enter each section of Trench at a time. Click here for picture.

    Ghost - Ghosts are a well imagined and implemented unit. Few changes, if any, are needed. As the Terran special forces unit, Ghosts fulfill many vital support roles. A few potential changes exist, and Blizzard themselves continue to tweak the unit. Currently the Ghost can Snipe, Cloak, Call Drop Pods and Call Nuclear Strikes.

    Sniping: The new Snipe capability fits the Ghost perfectly, however it looks a bit strange when combined with the normal Ghost attack. The Ghost uses a sniper rifle, isn't every attack thus a Snipe? My suggestion would be to only change the animations somewhat. Have the Ghost screw on some attachment to his rifle before Sniping, and all concerns would be solved. This animation shouldn't be too lengthy, just enough to cause the same slight delay that already exists and to make it clear that the Ghost is about to do something special, rather than his normal attack. Click here for picture.

    Nuclear Strike: While the Nuclear Strike was an iconic portion of the Ghost in the original Starcraft, there are a few reasons to possibly remove it in Starcraft II. First, Ghosts have been demonstrated to not be as reliable as thought. Most notably Kerrigan, but other Ghosts too have broken their psychological conditioning and gone rogue. One must wonder if the Terran commanders would continue to put their most feared weapon under the control of this sometimes uncontrollable unit. Secondly, the special forces role is not one of massive damage. Special forces sabotage, remove priority targets, scout, etc... Wikipedia says: In most countries special forces (SF) is a generic term for highly-trained military units that conduct specialized operations such as reconnaissance, unconventional warfare, and counter-terrorism actions. The Ghost obviously already has a reconnaissance element in Cloaking, and Sniping is certainly part of unconventional warfare. While it is true that calling in air strikes is normal for a special forces soldier, at least currently, we use a very different set of protocols for nuclear attacks. Unconventional warfare as a whole relies on demoralizing the enemy, rather than directly damaging them. Again, from Wikipedia: Unconventional warfare seeks to instill a belief that peace and security are not possible without compromise or concession. Objectives include inducement of weariness, curtailment of civilian standards of living and civil liberties associated with greater security demands, economic hardship linked to the costs of war; hopelessness to defend against assaults, fear, depression, and disintegration of morale. The ultimate goal of this type of warfare is to motivate an enemy to stop attacking or resisting even if it has the ability to continue. Therefore, I propose that a modified version of the D8 mine would be of far more use to the Ghost than the Nuclear Strike is. The D8 mine acts to destroy enemy infrastructure, and that is exactly what unconventional warfare is all about. The Nuclear Strike would be better moved to another unit, and given that its former weakness was the vulnerability of the Ghost, that unit should be more hardy.

    Suggestion: Currently we see no sign of the Ghosts vaunted psionic powers directly. It is implied that the Ghosts mental power assists in their targeting, stealth, etc... but there's nothing explicit. And so I suggest the Suggestion ability. Click here for picture. This ability would take a smaller, but noticeable, amount of energy and allow the Ghost to send a mental command to a unit which was not fully mechanical (ie: Observer). It would still be effective against normal mechs (ie: Stalker). The ability would be further capped to function only against units taking up less than 4 supply (3 and under). When used, the Ghost targets an enemy unit and then sends a mental command. The Ghost can not send an attack command, but only a move command. This command be targeted to anywhere on the screen, provided it is not under the fog of war. The targeted unit then has all previous commands upon it canceled (ie: attack orders, ability orders & move orders), moves to the designated location and cannot be controlled by the enemy until the move is completed.

    Medic - The Medic is a great Terran unit and their answer to the natural regeneration the other races have. The Medic also carries a few support capabilities in Restoration and Optical Flare (different from the first Starcraft Optical Flare). Medics while extremely useful however, don't have much combat capability beyond the obvious. Their potential usefulness is easily seen however in the triangle of current "ultimate" weapons technology. Today we refer to "Weapons of Mass Destruction" in three kinds: Nuclear, Biological and Chemical. Medics are clearly seen as being the best unit to carry biological weapon capabilities and possible chemical as well. A few suggestions follow...

    Nerve Dart: This ability would be a targeted attack, similar to the Ghost Snipe. The Medic would have to pull out their auxiliary dart-gun and then would be able to fire a chemical cocktail designed to work against all manner of nerve systems. Click here for picture. This dart would incapacitate biological units for a designated time-span. They would be unable to move or attack, but could be attacked themselves. This dart would have a short range, and be incapable of targeting air units. While not using energy, the Nerve Dart should have a lengthy cooldown between uses.

    Sonic Pulse: This ability would be an AoE radiating outward from the Medic in a moderate area. When activated, the Medic would cease her auto-heal function and her energy would begin draining rapidly. The Sonic Pulse is designed to create sound-waves at ultrasonic frequencies which have been demonstrated to be extremely distressing to alien species. Click here for picture. While not causing any direct damage, the Sonic Pulse would prevent Nydus Worms from appearing in its AoE, force Burrowed Zerg to exit their burrows, drain Protoss shields and neutralize the Sensor Towers ability to see units in the fog of war in that area. Think of it as a giant bug/dog/etc repel system. It drains Protoss shields because it interferes with their concentration, and it overloads the Sensor Towers with data thus reducing their usefulness.

    Cobra - The new Cobra design is a god-sent. The original Cobra just felt lacking in inspiration, but the new weapons system is a great idea and gives the Cobra its niche. As long as this unit is fast, and the electrical attack stays I have no concerns with it. One potential suggestion exists...

    EMP: Since the Cobra is now using an electrical attack, why not give it the EMP ability and an energy bar? In keeping with the theme of every Terran unit having multiple tactical uses, the Cobra could use an additional function, and the EMP seems tailor made for it.

    Siege Tank - The Siege Tank is perfect as is. I haven't seen anybody complain about anything excepting graphical appearance, and I don't think the Siege Tank needs a single gameplay change. It works brilliantly as heavy artillery support.

    Banshee - The Banshee is another great idea. Futuristic helicopter design combined with bomber functionality, it's sweet. The addition of a cloak upgrade gives the unit its full gamut of tactical usefulness. No suggestions.

    Battlecruiser - The Battlecruiser was well improved upon with the addition of multiple laser batteries, and customizable command ships. Like modern battlecruisers, this ship is heavily armed and armored and unmatched in its flexibility mixed with firepower. Only one issue exits as it currently stands. The Yamato Cannon is of course a great carry-over from the first Starcraft, but its upgrade counterpart is a little lacking. The Plasma Torpedo improvement lacks diversity because Banshees already have a natural ground suppression attack. A more distinct role is a must for the Terran command ship. My suggestion follows...

    Plasma Shield: Make players choose between the most basic of style differences, greater offense or defense. The Yamato Cannon makes the Battlecruiser into an even more tremendous source of firepower, which is certainly one of its main roles. The Plasma Shield would turn the Battlecruiser into an even more impregnable core to the fleet, another one of its main roles. Click here for picture. When activated the Plasma Shield would hit the Battlecruisers energy reserves initially followed by a small drain, but it would prevent most damage from directly harming the Battlecruiser. With its shields up, Battlecruisers would only take 20% of the damage directed at them. Graphically, we would see a Shield Generator added midships to the Battlecruiser, making the different classes of ship easily identified. Counters would exist in energy targeting attacks and in simply waiting for the temporary shield to fail.

    cont...
     
  2. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    cont...

    The Bad: (units in this section need some basic concept work to fit well)

    Reaper - The Reaper is currently a hodgepodge of good concepts that aren't really streamlined or fleshed out. We've got a hardened criminal lore background mixed with a mercenary recruitment building and a Darth Vader appearance, throw in a Grim Reaper naming reference and a pinprick/harassment attack mechanism and you've got a unit with little clarity. So when deciding what to work on, we first need to identify the most basic concept behind the unit.

    Apparently, the core concept to the unit is a group of manic criminals who are designed to assist the standard forces somewhat non-conventionally. With that in mind there are a few changes to make...

    Prison: Rather than recruiting Reapers, who are supposed to be the most dangerous humans in the galaxy, from a bar-like "Merc Haven", they should be recruited from a Prison. It might be best to initially build a 'Military Brig', which when built would have an attached animation of a 'Transport Pod' descending to the Brig and dropping off perhaps 12 prisoners. The player would then have a small pool of Reapers to recruit from, in this scenario 6. These could be recruited all at once or at whatever rate the player wished. Once the player exhausted the recruitable pool, the second half of the prisoners would become available for recruit as the first half perished. Once the total number of prisoners dropped to 6 or lower another Transport Pod animation would play with more prisoners being dropped off, but as usual these could not be recruited until members of the former group had perished.

    If the player wished to add more Reapers to their forces, they would have two options. Either build more 'Military Brigs', or individually upgrade current 'Military Brigs' into 'Maximum Security Prisons'. This upgrade would allow a further 9 Reapers to enter the recruit pool (and increase the Transport Pod prison shipments accordingly as well). A final upgrade to an 'Isolation Tanks Installation' would allow 21 more Reapers to enter the recruit pool (once again increasing the Transport Pod shipments accordingly also). None of these buildings could be 'Salvaged' if doing so would make the number of recruited Reapers greater than the available slots to hold them.

    Fugitives: This potential change would make is so that if there were ever more Reapers than slots for them in their buildings (ie: the enemy targeted the Prisons), the player would be unable to build anything else until he reconciled the disparate numbers. This means the player would either need to build more Prisons or even terminate the extra Reapers, either action would make a potentially interesting consequence to building too many Reapers. Click here for picture.

    Viking - Vikings were a great addition as initially displayed. Their current move to the Starport is a horrible decision in my mind however. The transforming concept was a great idea and perfectly demonstrated Terran adaptability. However, conceptually the Viking makes much better sense as a mech that can be upgraded with a fighter form, rather than a fighter that also has a mech form. Air units are a progression over mech units. It's very odd to go backwards in capability. The ground support unit should get aerial capability, not vice versa. Just a bad move all around. Change the Viking back.

    Thor - The Thor at its basis is a good idea. A mighty metal fist for the Terrans. It fits their mindset. In their own thoughts they worry that they are in fact inferior to these alien species, and so the Thor is a statement by the Terrans that they are not afraid to challenge the enemy directly. They believe that not only can they compete, but that they are in fact the superior race. In practice however the Thor could use some adjustment. As initially designed by Blizzard it overlaps the Siege Tank niche a good deal, and some even claimed that it conflicted with the Battlecruiser (personally I don't see that, but Blizzard called it a valid concern, so there it is...). Here are a few suggestions to give the Thor its own niche and to address some design issues...

    Liftoff Tech: One distressing thing about the Thor was its inability to be transported. Too large for Dropships, and unable to use any method of its own, it appeared the Thor would be useless on island maps, or could perhaps become stranded in some situations. While its true that a smart player could avoid this by simply not using his Thors unwisely, it is also true that many believe the game should never force a player to choose what units to build or use. While Firebats may be the best early counter to Zerglings for instance, if the player wants to use Marines or Vultures, he can. While Guardians may be the best way to assault an island for instance, if the player wants to use Overlord screens and Zergling drops, he can. A player is never forced into making a strategic or tactical choice. It's all up to play style and whatever works best for the individual player. I personally think Starcraft II should keep that element. Thors should never be an invalid option.

    Several suggestions have arisen to cope with the issue, the two most prominent being Liftoff Tech and Salvage. Salvage proponents say that since the Thor is created from modular parts on the battlefield like buildings, why shouldn't it be salvageable like buildings? There's no real reason other than personal preference. Personally, I think the addition of Liftoff Tech is much cooler than simply deleting the unit for a refund. Liftoff Tech proponents say that the Thor should be outfitted with the same boosters buildings use to move. Click here for picture. This would not remove the Thors maneuverability issues, because the Thor would move at the same extremely slow rate of speed which buildings use, and further it would take increased damage while airborne.

    Thor Nuke: In harmony with the earlier suggestion to remove Nuclear Strike from the Ghost, it follows that the Terrans would attempt to counter the main weakness of their former weapons system and would attach it to the most sturdy unit they have. Click here for picture. This ability would allow the Thor to carry at first one, and then two Nuclear Charges within his heavily armored chassis. These Nuclear Charges would take up supply and cost significant resources just as in the first Starcraft. When the Thor went to launch a Nuclear Charge his chest cavity would open up, a Nuclear Charge would be energized and then a magnetic cone would be gathered to launch it. The same large warning zone symbol would appear to the player arming the Nuclear Charge, and opponents would receive a audible warning (Warning: Armed Nuclear Charge Detected). Once launched, the Nuclear Charge would follow a high arcing path, before landing at the designated point and obliterating virtually everything. The Thor would take increased damage during this somewhat lengthy process, due to his internal systems becoming exposed. This, combined with the inability of a Thor to hide (and thus be targeted long before it was within range) would provide the means to counter nuclear attack, as well as the various special abilities each race possesses like Time Bomb, Suggestion, etc...

    Melee Thor: A final suggestion to give the Thor its own unquestioned niche is to make it a melee unit. For a sci-fi comparison, think of the Transformers mechs, which often use melee combat primarily. Click here for picture. The Thors slowness could be altered to allow it acceleration as long as it travels in a straight line. Thus, agile units could still easily avoid it, but inattentive players could find themselves in a world of trouble. Another possibility is to allow individual 'Hover Jets' upgrades which would be very expensive but would allow Thors to move more quickly, albeit still lacking agility with a wide and slow turning radius. These 'Hover Jets' would not allow the Thor to transverse cliffs or other map barriers, but simply hover a la Vultures. The 'Hover Jets' concept would fit in well with the already mentioned Liftoff Tech, as Thors could first gain the ability to move more quickly on land and then the ability to move very slowly thru the air as well. Thors would then function primarily to force enemy units to react (perhaps still unable to engage them without clever tactics, but compelling them to move in the directions you wish), and as base destroyers. This would add many new elements to Terran tactics, compliment their reliance on ranged weapons and ensure that the Thor does not even remotely overlap any other unit.

    Dropship - The Dropship is unremarkable yet necessary. As a simple Dropship it is hard to think of a way to make it more interesting and thus I suggest the following...

    Floating Platform: To replace the Dropship the Terrans should have a Floating Platform unit. This unit would be a large, flat platform with a control hut and the ability to fly anywhere. The Floating Platform would land, ramps would extend and any combination of units a player wished could board or disembark from it. The Floating Platform would have 12 "slots". Infantry would each take up one slot, smaller mechs like Cobras and Vikings (which weren't upgraded) would take up 2 slots. Finally, large mechs like Siege Tanks would take up 4 slots. Thors would not fit on the Floating Platform. The usefulness of the Floating Platform arises in that units on board it could still attack enemies. They would be unable to use any abilities, but their primary attack would function. For instance, Siege Tanks thus could not deploy in Siege Mode nor could Marines Stim Pack, but Medics could Heal. To imagine what this would look like think of a ferry/aircraft carrier design transported into space. Click here for picture.

    Nomad - The Nomad is an interesting concept, essentially replacing the scientists with mechanics. While most likely cheaper, and more naturally practical, the Nomad also should lack the Science Vessels powerful abilities. Currently the Nomad has Nano-Repair, Defensive Matrix and EMP. Nano-Repair appears to be a bit redundant considering SCV's repair function. Also Defensive Matrix and EMP appear a little odd coming out of a flying mechanic shop, I don't know if the Nomad should have those abilities. With that in mind, here are some suggestions...

    SCV Bays: Instead of a redundant feature like Nano-Repair, the Nomad should be able to house up to three SCV's. SCV's attached to a Nomad would zip around on extendable tethers (much like astronauts) to repair both ground and air units automatically, and these repairs would occur at a faster rate than normal. Click here for picture. (Normally, SCV's should only be able to repair ground units incidentally.)

    Turbocharge: This Nomad ability would function similar to the infantry Stim Pack. A Nomad could administer Turbocharges for an energy fee to mechanical units. Those units would then move and attack faster than normal for a designated time-frame, however the increased stress on their architecture would cause them to take a nominal amount of damage. Click here for picture.

    Energy Bank: The Nomad could boost the energy recharge rate of another unit. While charging the selected unit, the Nomads own energy recovery would cease. The ability could function at a short range but the Nomad would need to be immobile while charging the other unit. Click here for picture.

    The Ugly: (units in this section need extensive basic concept work to fit well)

    Tarantula - The Terrans could use another mechanical unit to round out their forces. A previously unexplored option is the heavy support, mobile factory. Inspired by the Star Wars AT-AT, this unit provides ground-based support fire primarily versus air units, and pairs that with the ability to produce smaller mechanical units within its large rear hold for direct insertion on the battlefield. Click here for picture. It is equipped with a number of small laser guns which are independently controlled, similar to the Battlecruiser. These are not nearly as powerful as their Battlecruiser counter-parts and may be useless against heavily armored opponents. However, they are quite useful against swarms of lighter air units. Secondly, Cobras and Vikings (and maybe Siege Tanks with an upgrade?) could be built within the Tarantula rear hold. It could hold 2 Cobras or Vikings and 1 Siege Tank at a time within this hold, and would need to deploy that/those unit(s) before building more. Units built within the Tarantula would take 2 to 3 times longer to build than their Factory-built counterparts.

    Mantis - The Mantis would be an air superiority fighter and fill the void of the missing Predator. Click here and here for pictures. The Mantis would primarily be used to deploy floating Orbital Mines, which it could build like Scarabs, and to use its natural Gravity Sphere attack. The Gravity Sphere would be a new weapon developed by Terran scientists which caused nearby objects to be pulled towards its super-dense surface. The problem is that the nature of the weapon, and the magnetic shielding needed to prevent it from working until desired, make it too bulky to use in traditional missiles, torpedoes, and the like. Thus the Gravity Sphere is delivered using the most reliable system known to mankind. It is extended on a boom and then rammed into the enemy. This makes it most useful against large enemy vessels due to the extended cooldown between attacks (the Mantis must disengage and loop around to gain velocity again), and the incidental damage caused to the Mantis in the attacking (the Mantis must be periodically repaired or succumb to its own efforts).

    ----------------
    This concludes The Terran Good, Bad & Ugly. Comments welcomed and hoped for. =]
     
  3. Heavyarms2050

    Heavyarms2050 New Member

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    customizable mercenary, i like that idea alot. You can give him a flame thrower, grenade launcher, or rocket launcher.
     
  4. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    SMZ, the viking doesnt need to upgrade so change anymore and i really hate the thor nuke idea
     
  5. DKutrovsky

    DKutrovsky New Member

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    I dont think the ghost needs any changes.

    I dont like the Melee or the Nuke Thor.

    I think the medic is a bit overpowered with those abilities.

    I LOVE the Mobile Factory.

    Nomad sounds overpowered,and too offensive based.

    Plasma shields are a good idea, but completely invulnerable is overpowered.

    Viking SHOULD go back to where it was, a factory unit starting up as a mech.

    reapers should stay the same, they are criminals, but dont put too much emphasis on that.They are still trained like normal soldiers for a certain ammount of time before sent in battle, its just their background.

    Good post overall.
     
  6. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    Thanks ijffdrie for that note - edited to be correct...

    Question DKutrovsky? you said Nomad sounds too offensive based? but all the abilities I suggested were support except for the Chemical Spray. What did you mean? And you're right about the Plasma Shield, lemme edit it...
     
  7. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    i dont like the medic abilities,
     
  8. MobileInfantry

    MobileInfantry New Member

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    Nice ideas, except the few things others pointed out, I really like the reaper idea, and the medic stunning nerve dart. As for the dropship platform, it just reminds me too much of the ships in Killzone 2.
    Video to show, and just because it looks pretty cool lol.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lRAPncF5qw
     
  9. Hodl pu

    Hodl pu New Member

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    I like the marine trenches ability. I wouldn't mind that at all. Instead of it acting as a structure, it should be some sort of terrain alter. I.E You know how units miss when they shoot up? A fixed amount of units inside the trench can dodge incoming attacks. The attacker would have a greater chance of missing just as if the marines were on a hill. Of course if a melee unit jumps down the trench, such as zerglings swarming, they would hit 100% of the time as normal.
     
  10. Heavyarms2050

    Heavyarms2050 New Member

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    that a need idea of putting a platform on top of a dropship is cool, It'll make the drop ship more useful.
     
  11. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    thnx hodl pu, that's what I meant by the idea - alters terrain instead of a structure - lemme make the wording clearer

    thnx for the feedback - if there's anything ppl don't like, just please include a reason why you don't like it or a suggestion for something better... I'll edit things as ppl respond - but if it's just a simple: "i don't like X", that doesn't really tell me what to change - something as simple as, "I like Blizzard's better" is even useful
     
  12. ItzaHexGor

    ItzaHexGor Active Member

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    The Good:
    Marine
    Shield and Bayonet - I also don't 100% agree with the shield's graphic, but I don't think it should be made to look like the Gungan shields. Whenever I see those shields, I always think of Protoss. I reckon the shields should look like a clear rioting shield, like the ones that police have now. Maybe even a ballistic shield, but I'd prefer rioting shields. I don't mind the bayonet.
    Dig Trench - I don't particularly like this idea. It kind of suits the Marine, but I think that they would prefer Bunkers.
    Ghost
    Snipe - I like your idea about adding a scope or attachment before hand. It would turn the Ghost's rifle into a sniper rifle. Makes perfect sense.
    Nuclear Strike - The Ghost should definitely keep its Nuclear Strike ability. If it loses it, then it should be removed from the game. Remember that the Terran don't actually give the Ghosts the Nuke, the just locate the target. A kid with a laser pointer would be just as effective. Again, the Ghosts are just the ones that locate where the Nuke will be dropped on/launched to. The Ghost itself isn't doing the damage, the Ghost just sets it up. I think that this is a perfect job for the special forces. It is just like the Drop Pod.
    Your suggestion - I don't think that the Terran are ready for a type of mind control yet. The Ghosts use psychic powers, but they are extremely minor. They have great psychic potential, but they haven't developed them that well yet.
    Cobra
    EMP - I don't really like the new electrical attack, it seems a bit out of place. However because it does have an electrical attack, it seems logical that it would have an EMP, but game-play-wise the Cobra wasn't ever really designed as a spell-caster unit. I think it should just remain as it is, with its ability to shoot on the move.
    Siege Tank
    Yeah, that first design was a bit frightening. What I really like about the new design is that it doesn't even resemble a Tank when it is in Siege Mode.
    Banshee
    This has got to be my favorite unit in the whole of StarCraft2 so far. It fits Terran extremely well, and its design and role are perfect.
    Battlecruiser
    Plasma Torpedoes/Plasma Shield - I like the Plasma Torpedoes idea. It is different to the Banshee, because Banshees are quite fragile, especially when compared to the Battlecruiser. The Battlecruiser would be able to use the Plasma Torpedoes whenever, even when under attack by the enemy because it is able to withstand this damage to a certain extent. The Banshees on the other hand, once they are detected or run out of energy, will quickly be shot down before they can do significant damage. Your Plasma Shield idea seems to be the same as Defensive Matrix, except that it is only cast upon itself. You are trying to get rid of the overlap between these units, but you have incidentally overlapped it with another unit.

    The Bad:
    Reaper
    This unit should definitely be in the 'Good' section. I love the Reaper! They aren't really mercenaries like you said, because they are prisoners who have been given an extremely violent way of getting a chance to be given a full pardon.
    Multiple recruitment - I like this idea a lot because it breaks up the traditional way of producing units. Also, I don't see why they would be so expensive, because they aren't actually mercenaries. I think having them able to be bought in different sized squads is a good idea, but it should get as high as 64 at once. I think having 4, 12 and 20 would be good.
    Mercenary Uncertainty - Again, they aren't actually mercenaries. They are prisoners.
    Jet Packs - I think that all Reapers should always be equipped with Jet Packs, because that is pretty much what their role revolves around. The Jet Packs wouldn't necessarily be expensive to produce, because they aren't perfected and are extremely unpredictable, which is why they aren't given to more advanced infantry.
    Viking
    I was horrified to see this in 'Bad' units! I reckon it is a great idea, but I do agree that the Ground form should be built first, from the factory, and then there would be an upgrade that enables them to transform into air and back. I would also prefer it in the Factory, and then maybe after you have researched the transforming upgrade, they could also be produced directly into their air form from the StarPort?
    Thor
    Personally I would have also put this in 'Good' units.
    Liftoff - I don't think that the Thor should be given a Liftoff ability, because its main weakness is that it isn't very mobile. Liftoff would get rid of the majority of this weakness. On island maps the Thor would have to be used as defense or not produced at all.
    Thor Nuke - Nooooooooooooooooo! I would hate to see this implemented! The Thor already has Bombardment which is similar to Nuke, but giving it the Nuke would mean that the Nuke would have to be nerfed, and couldn't be one of the Ghost's abilities.
    Melee Thor - I've already debated with you about the Thor being melee. Long story short I think that it isn't a good concept and doesn't fit the Terran's game-play style at all.
    Dropship
    Floating Platform - I don't really like this idea, I think that the Dropship should remain the same as it was in StarCraft1.
    Nomad
    Definitely belongs in the 'Bad' units. I never liked the concept or design of the Nomad. I felt that the Science Vessel suited Terran much more and was much more practical as well. This unit is the worst part of StarCraft2 at the moment. It is pretty much the only unit that I have a problem with, and I have a major problem with it. Definitely needs to be heavily re-done or removed.

    The Ugly
    Tarantula - The Terran already have a mobile Factory because the Factory has Liftoff. Sure, it isn't able to produce units on the move, but I still don't see a need for the Tarantula. I don't like the fact that it was based on the Star-Wars walker either.
    Mantis - The idea of Orbital Mines was alright, but I would prefer them to be like Spider Mines. They wouldn't be able to Burrow or Cloak but they would slow down any enemy units a lot, or force them to go around them. The Mantis idea seems a bit all over the place at the moment. It needs some refining.
     
  13. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    Very good response - thnx, I'ma look over your points in detail and make some changes later - lemme give ya a powerup

    about the Reapers - the reason I mentioned the mercenary part is because they're built at the "Merc Haven" which sounds weird to me when put with as you said, the whole re-socialized government program bit

    And the Viking was in the Bad section, because they messed them up currently - I love the unit, but it's most recent version is screwed up

    and your synopsis of the Ugly fan-created units is spot-on... both ideas are a bit ugly at the moment, lol

    ---------
    ok - more feedback, I'm going to wait a bit and see what more people say regarding the ghost... I like the idea of it sneaking into bases and leaving mines on the buildings, sneaking back out and the enemy doesn't know what's going on when 10 seconds later their buildings just start blowing up - but if most ppl think the Ghost has to have the Nuke to really be the Ghost, then I'll change the ideas around...

    I altered the Plasma Shield idea a bit with your reply in mind... you're right, it would need to be longer lasting than the old Defensive Matrix ability (incidentally I don't think the Nomad should have that ability), and I changed the shield to not be as fully protective as the old Defensive Matrix was... I really like the idea of Battlecruisers raising their shields tho...

    and good suggestion 4,12,20 might be a better merc haven rate - I think I went a tad overboard... a person could always have multiple merc havens after all...

    and yeah, the Thor is "Bad" right now, because it needs some changes - I really like the unit concept too tho - I think you like the Thor as is, but do you see why some ppl feel it overlaps the Siege Tank some? and do you have any suggestions to clear up that issue?

    and basically the Mantis was based around the concept of a submarine... I wasn't sure whether Orbital Mines should be visible or not, but I think it would be a good mechanic to provide some defense against air vessels
     
  14. DKutrovsky

    DKutrovsky New Member

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    I forgot to mention i liked the trench idea, very terran like very useful, fairly easy to do irl.

    I said the nomad is too offensive because giving its energy gives too much firepower to a Thor or a Battlecruiser.

    The Turbocharge is basically like Bloodlust in War3, which is again a very offensive ability.

    The acid thing deals damage, so thats offense as well.

    Think mass battlecruisers and mass nomads, it will be yamato/plasma topedos galore.
     
  15. ItzaHexGor

    ItzaHexGor Active Member

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    I'm also a bit confused about Reapers requiring a Merc Haven. I think that the Reapers require a Merc Haven because that would be the usual place where they would hang out (if they weren't in prison of course). I feel that they should actually be brought in in a prison or something, and then they are slowly released (purchased) in groups of cell mates. However this means that the Prison wouldn't be able to be build from scratch, it would have to be brought in with the Reapers already inside. Then, maybe there could be a maximum number of Reapers per Prison? So if you have one Prison, then you could only have 10 Reapers tops. If you had 2, then you could have 20. This would give the feel of the Reapers actually being criminals, and that they have to be confined at all times until they are given the opportunity to shoot and kill stuff.
     
  16. Gasmaskguy

    Gasmaskguy New Member

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    I like your idea Itza. :D
    Indeed they should put more emphasis on 'crazy prisoner' part rather than the 'mercenary' part. Building prisons would look really cool, and feel more in place than a bar, in a warzone. Of course, you need to keep up the troop morale, but you don't need a bar for that, just beer. :p

    Only problem I see is that the 'prisoner' story overlaps the marines, but there is always worse criminals, right?
     
  17. ItzaHexGor

    ItzaHexGor Active Member

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    I thought Marines were made up of a combination of resocializing criminals (but not ones that are as bad as Reapers), conscription, small militias and mercenaries. They aren't one defined group of people, like the Reapers are.
    I've thought up another addition to my Prison idea. Instead of having the whole Prison being dropped in, then maybe the SCV could build the structure of the Prison, then a few Drop-Ships or Drop Pods could drop the Reapers directly into their cells. This way the Prison couldn't be acquired instantly because it is just dropped in, ready to go.
     
  18. Gasmaskguy

    Gasmaskguy New Member

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    lol I can't believe it... EXACTLY what I thought, about Drop Pods coming down after a SCV built the Prison. :D It's a funny feeling, reading what you were thinking of yourself.
    I really want this to be implemented, I can't say anything bad about it.
     
  19. NateSMZ

    NateSMZ New Member

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    Iunno... that is a good concept with the criminals - but I like the idea of desperate commanders hiring mercenaries better

    I mean, we already have prisoners turned into soldiers with a large portion of the Marines... the cinematic even features a criminal turned marine, Tychus going to be one of the main characters... it seems repetitive to use the same mechanism with another unit

    and thnx DKutrovsky, I'm taking the cropduster idea out and tweaking the energy bank one
     
  20. ItzaHexGor

    ItzaHexGor Active Member

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    The mercenaries idea would be good, except Blizzard has already come up with the background to the unit, and it would be a bit strange if they just suddenly changed that. I still think that there is enough differentiation between Marines and Reapers. Marines would be criminals who might have been imprisoned for murder or manslaughter or something, but the Reapers are the ones who have been imprisoned for mass murders and aggravated assault, arson, hostage situations, rape, kidnappings, etc, and that's just what one of the Reapers did! Hmmm, maybe I went a bit over the top, but Reapers would have done much more serious crimes than a Marine.
    And I just kind of realized that having the Reapers being dropped into their Prison might be too much of a rip-off of the Space Marines in Dawn of War. The two concepts are extremely similar, but there are still differences between them.