Terran vs Protoss SC2, a living nightmare?

Ok, im not sure if this should be here or in strategies but here it goes anyway.

I watch SC reps a lot, so i've been wondering lately, how will terran fight protoss in SC2, considering the following:

1. No wraiths, the only viable counter to carriers was kill the observers using com sat and kill the carriers with the wraiths, and in very few instances, goliaths but those are gone now.

2. No vultures, hard to counter zealots early or late game, hard to push, harras the protoss to make robotics and get observers, hard to pump units units that kill zealots while taking hits for the tanks so that tanks can shoot unbothered, lack of a mineral only costing unit.

3. Lack of firebats, although the firebat wasnt very used it was still a hard counter for zealots in certain situations.

4. The goliath as a ground unit didnt help much vs protoss, so i dont see how the Viking will, also i dont see how the viking, assuming that its a non cloaked wraith or a little better, will do vs protoss air, knowing that if wraiths arent cloaked, they are dead in seconds.

5. No real use of cobras vs protoss so far as we know in large scale battles.

6. The new mechanic of the EMP, has to be on top of the enemy, as opposed to shooting the EMP missle.

7. Dragoons, the most used unit vs terran has been split into two really strong replacements, one that blinks and one that doesnt die from siege tanks, both having a hard counter to tanks, one being very durable and the other being able to cut the distance fast.

8. Protoss getting really good ATG flyers as well as great ATA flyers.

9. The Mothership time bomb will work miricles vs static terran siege tanks combined with ranged attackers of its own such as stalker, colossus, immortal.

10. Archon with feedback and attack at the same time, this unit will be of fantastic use if the terrans have Thors, Nomads, Banshees, Battlecruisers.

11. Dark templar and high templar are untouched, and zealots are maybe a little better.

12. Phase prisms and the Warp in ability can be easily abused to make the protoss army extremely mobile, while terran's mobility is still limited to the Reaper.


A lot of these things will add up making a protoss vs terran fight very very hard. Anyone care to argue if im wrong in these points?

 

You forgot about the colossus having th same ability as the reaper. I have done similar threads about the power of the protoss and the conclusion is this. The numbers are not final yet. They way you but things now make the protoss look more powerful than they actually are. Blizzard will work out the differences in power and everything will be okay. What we know now may change by the time the game comes out, so its not worth drawing to conclusions before the game is final.

 

well, this is a forum where we speculate with curren info, and thinking about it thats what we can conclude, its not out job to do it, but i mean, its a good thing to point out what we think about it, to help balance the game.

Its just that i dont see much change in the way the terran fighting style is, and some of its key components have been taken away, mainly the vulture and the wraith, even the goliath a GTA unit vs protoss basically has been removed.

The only good AA we have currently is the viking, which isnt anything more than a visable wraith. Vs an army of mass stalkers and carriers/warp rays the wont stand a chance in hell

 

But the numbers in the amount of damage done isn't final. Currently, I argee, the Prottos would devastate the Terran from what I've seen in the videos. But skill will be the most important thing. It will be almost impossible for Protoss to outnumber the Terran forces due to cost, but the Protoss units are much more powerful and with many new abilities. Charge will destroy any marine defences the Terran's get early game.

 

i am very sure that blizzard will balance the whole thing too early to find out protoss is so stronger than terran etc couse i know that blizzard always had balance 1st in their mind like sc1 so dont worry too much until the finals

 

I actually think that it wont' be a living nightmare.

M&M's are a must now without the support of Vultures in SC2. But keep in mind that Marines have increased HP making them tank that much longer. With medics included, they would still cause problems for the Protoss to kill until Colossus starts popping out. Add in the fact with the new and improved ghosts and it's low tech-tree, and you get a pretty deadly combo going. Snipe will certain own up zealots pretty good. Not to mention, medics can also heal the Ghosts also. Stalkers wouldn't really make a difference simply because they are basically weakened Dragoons but with the ability to blink. Their damage, HP has been reduced. Not to mention, their range has also decreased. That means, M&M will most likely plow through the Stalkers. Oh yea, we all know that Firebats as of now, are in the game. Add that to the fact and you can kiss Zealots good-bye. Protoss infantry would get pounded over by the new Terran infantry.

Protoss will be forced to get either Colossus or HT to counter the Terran infantry. By then, Terran would have also teched up too. Vikings in air-mode will destroy the Colossus. Don't forget that Karune recently posted that Siege tanks range have increased even further. We all know that the current siege tanks are very deadly with their range. Increasing it would make them soo much stronger. Not to mention, at BlizzCon, Siege tanks have 200 HP and deals 100 damage. That is a huge buff right there.Yes, the Protoss has the Immortals to soak up the damage but I'm sure you will have plenty of backup to support your siege tanks.

So to be honest, it really all comes down to micro/macro during the face-off.

 

Im not worried about the numbers, its the current mechanics that bother me.

Terran didnt get any new to throw at the enemy really.

The viking is basically goliath ground attack and visible air wrath.

The tank is the same

Vulture's gone

Cobra seems a little useless.

Thor is ok at best, one feedback before battle and he's just a hulk that does no damage

banshee is flinchy with no air defense and it has mana

no firebat...

Reaper is only good for base harrasment, opposed to colossus which desimates workers and normal armies as well.

You see where im going with this?

Not to mention the protoss Warp-in is just amazing, the terran didnt get anything similar in terms of mechanics.

The Plan, fort is equal to the Mobile photon cannos imo, and the supply depot isnt really necessary as we have lift off buildings anyway...

 

@ DeathRot welcome to the forums. I know Blizzard will balance stuff out, but hopefully it won't take them too long. A hope the game will come out before this summer so I will have time to play it.

 

See i really dont have much trust in marines vs protoss.

One, they die fast, like faster than you would think, even if they have 5hp more than a firebat, they'll die fast, not by zealots or stalkers, but by high templar,colossus. One high templar and 1-2 colossus can take out A LOT of marines FAST. As for ghosts, idk, if they still are 1 supply and dont cost a crapload of gas that may change things a little bit, but if depends how the casting AI will be, if its like SC1, snipe will be hard to pull of, if its like wc3 its a whole different story.

 

Don't worry DK.
Karune has stated that they are implementing smart-casting to the world of SC2.

That means, if you select all your ghost and snipe 1 unit, only 1 ghost will snipe. It's just like WC3.

As for the Marine issue, I agree. But in SC2, from the looks of it, Marines will be a must against Protoss. Because the Terrans in SC2 have no unit that resembles a Vulture. I also forgot to mention, Psi Storm's damage has been nerfed greatly in terms of damage and AOE. I believe that they deal a total of 80 damage while having a smaller AOE. The reason behind the nerf I believe is due to the new smart-casting.

Colossus and Psi-Storm will still rip Terran infantry to shreds. But if the Terran player is smart, he will snipe off any HT nearby. Colossus on the other hand, will be a problem against Terran infantry. That is when you bring in some vikings, turn them into air-mode, and do what they do best . The Protoss could bring in some Phoenix to counter your Vikings. If that happens, you can bring in some Predators and use the ability that blocks incoming fire.(even though we aren't real sure how the ability really works in game). But it won't really matter because the battle would basically determined based on the players skill.

 

Exactly, Blizzard will fill in the balancing holes and make sure that either player would have an even chance of winning, allowing it to be based on skill, not power.

 

Maybe, i guess the protoss vs terran will resolve around if you can counter what kills your marines and he has to find a way to kill them.

 

These arguements sound the same as what was on my forum. But I do have faith in Blizzard and that they will fix everything for the final release of the game.

 

Idk, the vultures and their spider mines were simply amazing vs protoss, there's no way around it. There was no way you could beat a decent protoss without vultures, just no way around it...

 

The mines were also devastating to swarming zerg armies as they advanced on your base. One mine takes out entire swarm of zerglings, ah those were fun.

 

the only way mines were useful vs zerg was when you get to play the Dark Swarm Dance, he's chasing you with zerglins and lurkers while casting Dark Swarm ontop of your army, and you run back and lead him over some mines, they kill lurkers in one shot pretty much, so thats always fun, he's chasing you thinking he's the man under the swarm, than BAM, 3-4 lurkers and some zerglings dead from a couple of mines.

Ah...good times

 

ya good time dont worry too much about the balance and stuff there always counter for protoss and thx for the welcome,just becouse of the current information that make protoss powerful doesnt mean at the final it will be the same

 

I think the ban she will be more effective against zealots than the vulture because it can kill clusters of them. Also the zealots can't kill aerial units so they wold need backup.

Also the Stalker while it is very mobile and has a high RoF it has low HP so won't be too hard to smash if you get a bead on it. Perhaps they could make it where EMP reset the blink timer.

As for the Immortal it can take tank fire but due to its slow RoF and slow movement speed MM's will eat it as will the banshee.

Supply depots will also give the terrans a defensive edge at their own base because almost all of the Protoss ground units are either melee units or have very low ranges so they would have to kill the supply depots to kill the things behind it. Blinking a few stalkers would not work all that well because they would be gone from tank fire after 3 strikes.

The Viking is the replacement for the goliath and wraith and It is a good one because it seems to have a better ant ground attack than both of those units.

One thing to remember is that we have not seen much of the Predator so it very well might be the Terran's ace in the hole. Its intercept ability could be very effective against interceptors and carriers are worthless without those.

The battle cruisers were always able to devastate Carrier fleets with yamato cannons and it won't be any different here plus the plasma torpedoes offer another solution to Protoss infantry and are once again untouchable to Zealots and Dark Templar.

The Terrans do still have EMP; good use of that can turn the tide of battle regardless of how it is deployed the only difference is it might require a little bit more micro. I thought that they had decided to make it operate as in SC1 though.

Also you Firebat fears are outdated because thy have said firebats are back.

 

I really think that vikings are going to be more useful than you think, and M&M is always going to be effective if used to amplify higher tier units damage. Just because there aren't that many new innovations for the Terran as the Protoss it doesn't mean that they won't be able to compete.

 

I think you may be overestimating the power of colossi which aren't that durable and can be hit my both ground and air.

What do you mean by flinchy? So what if it doesn't have air defense, thats not it's job. And the "mana" is for it's cloak abilty.

The predator is the new terran fighter and replaces wraiths in that regard.


The game is far from done so just relax.