anyone seen this tactic? happened to me last night in 2v2. we went random random ended up P P v T T did my usual. 9 pylon, 12 gateway. scout when i went to scout, TT had a barracks each already built outside my base and 1 more each half way built. only chance i had was to run my probes out to attack. managed to get 1 of them on fire b4 he lifted it off. but then amrines popped out the others. watching the replay the TT also had a depot up and same amount of engineers as me. ill post replay if someone doesnt understand . Any counter?..
Only thing I can think of is 9 pylon, 10 gateway, and pop a zealot to scout immediately .... or 9 pylon, 10 forge, and proxy cannon the rackses lol
Chrono boost your first Zealots, and you should be able to hold them off on the ramp until you get some cannons up.
don't bother trying to kill the barracks. you probably lost at least 500 minerals worth of mining time while he didn't even build a single marine. chronoboost a zealot. if 1-2 marines come into your base, your probes can handle them. by that time you should have your zealot out. kill the marines in your base, keep pumping zealots... march them right beside the barracks so they can start killing marines as soon as they spawn. don't let him build up a large group of marines, because tight balls of marines slaughter melee units (i.e. zealots and probes). eventually, he'll realize that the money on the barracks was a waste and either lift them off or abandon them.
yes, DO NOT pull off your workers, instead you build your buildings near your nexus helms deep style OR create a choke point at your entrance. chrono boost zealot, and get a forge for cannons, static defense will prevent them from overwhelming you with constant waves while waiting for zealots to be produced. once you have sufficiently held them off, tech to void raids and kill his main. If he manages to get a bunker in your base (considering you have tried to stop him) build cannons in a way where he can't build more bunkers closer to your buildings. NOTE: when you are contained, make sure you have your rally points set correctly so they dont engage them as soon as they come out cuz you want to stock up. if you can do all of this on your own without the help of your teammate, its GG, your teammate will finish them off
thx for advice. i immediatly realised tpulling my workers off was a bad idea and soons surrendered. yes going gateway at 10 would of solved the problem but i still think its statisticly best to go gateway at 12 and then scout in the majority of cases therefore its imposbiel for u to know what hes done until 12 when uve started gateway and sent ur scout. cannons also out of the question realy as by the time uve built a forge and a cannon marines wud alredy be takin ur pylon / workers down. only counter seems to be just waiting and pumping zealots. trying to hold them off but at the time i didnt think i had time to wait for a zealot as gateway was only half done.
Like I said, don't go for cannons first, hold him off until you can get 1 or two. If you just go straight for cannons, he can just ignore them, and walk right next to them, loosing maybe 2 marines out of a group of 6-ish if they're really fast. After that they'll just finish off your workers while pumping out more marines.
Scouting early solves all of this problems. Scout after you start building your first Pylon instead of after Gateway. That early scout gives you the info if he's going proxy. It may hurt your economy a little bit but that early scout means a lot as you can defend from reaper rushes, proxies, and 7 pool rushes. After you see that they are going for the proxy, get chrono boost zealot to hold it off and get 2nd gateway once you have access minerals. Pumping out a lot of zealots will make proxy barracks useless unless they get gas and get marauders.
i dont agree with scouting after first pylon. if you scout after first pylon and your enemy has not scouted and is mining then your on the back foot. also highly likely there will be nothing usefull to scout this early in the game. Yes yourl spot an early rush but percentage wise for the majority of games your best putting your probe back on minerals, the trade off to this is actualy your gateway will be being built faster. If you send early scout and see his proxy rushing u what do u do? u do the same thing just build 2 gateways....so why bother with the scout why not just take advantage of more minerals get an earlier gateway and then scout meaning your still going to be better prepared for a rush. also the majority of terran players will not start building tech lab/reactor for u to scout that early anyway. If you get proxy rushed then its just a risk you have to take spotting it a little later. and like i said, your still going to need 2 gateways to counter whether you know about it 30 seconds earlier or not and early scouting will just make you build them slower.
Scouting would make you even, because the enemy (and his ally) had to pull an SCV off to build the proxy rax. And of course you can return your probe as soon as you see the barracks. Scouting is always a good idea. Sure, if they are barracks rushing you it slows you down a bit (5 seconds perhaps) in getting your gateway, but it also let's your ally know he needs to produce units fast. And what if they weren't rax rushing but were instead reaper harassing? Then you want quick stalkers, not a bunch of zealots. You would lose the game or be hurt badly if you weren't aware.
I don't agree at all with bigfish... I'm always sending my pylon-probe to scout and stay in his base to check what he's up to. If I see for example a fast rax-tech lab i would chrono boost my zeal, cuz in my normal build I don't even start building zeals until i have my cyb-core and stuff up...
You seem fairly new at starcraft 2. Scouting after first Pylon helps you to counter the units they're going to make. You say you can't see their build that early portion of the game but that's where you're wrong. Checking gas if they did go for early gas means a lot as early gas means early tech lab, reapers, speedlings, banelings, stalker/sentries. Also in this case, it can detect any proxies so you know what is coming to prepare for 2 gateway zealot push. If you scout early, essentially the other guy loses 2 workers as they need to pursue the scouting probe for a potential proxy and scout with another worker.. 30 seconds is a very crucial time as getting 2 gateway before scouting against Terran is suicidal. That's why you scout early to see if they're going for reapers or fast tech lab to produce marauders and counter it with stalkers or early robo to make immortals. In any way possible, early scouting with a probe is very helpful as you can proxy pylon as well if they don't chase your probe.
I lolled. I mean, the game isn't even out yet. We're all new to it, and to every bit of new gameplay introduced with each patch. Other then that: you're right. Of course you won't see your opponent directly building certain units that early. However, the mining of gas, and how early, can be very helpful in finding out what kind of build it's going to be from your opponent.
You can be new to the beta. The beta has been around for months. I don't think I'm new to it anymore as I've been playing months.
i know what your saying about seeing structures but iw as refering to that anyway. at 9 probes the enemy will not have a tech lab/reactor. they may have 1 gas not 2. if u scout at 12 then u have a better idea of whats gonna happen cos they have built more structures. also if u want ot REALY scout for a proxy base ud need to scout everywhere around ur base. a proxy base cud be anywhere. thus wasting yet more mineral time again. whatever the opponent is going. you allways need 2 gateways anyway, its the most reliable start i think. so scouting after 1st gateway is ideal as u get more minerals and get to see more structures. from this point you can then decide to carry on with zealots or get on the gas and cyber. if u go at 9- tech lab not up. eventualy ur probe gets killed. u gota send another probe to see if its a reactor or tech lab. if someone sends an early probe at me i just carry on building then scout at 12...if hes stupid hell send his probe into a corner and build a pylon. which will be soon destroyed as i knew it was there all along. once again, you say scout early. but if u scout at 9 against terran i gauruntee there will be no tech lab / reactor. so u gota waypoint ur probe around and possibly get it killed. then send another to see if it was a reactor. sometimes when i scout at 12 theres not even a tech lab going up yet... eg consider jons reaper rush build on this forum. 11 barracks then immediate tech lab. means when i scout at 12 and 1 gateway he still hasnt started building add on. 9 is too early.
You completely missed my point. The point of early scouting is to look for early expansion, proxys and early tech lab through how fast they get their gas. You can also find out their strat through seeing what unit they get first. If you're afraid of your probe dying, just pull it out before they block the choke. Besides, if you're probe died in the early scout, how is late scouting gonna help you survive let alone going into the blocked choke for terran. Not to mention harassing SCV when building MAKES THE PLAYERS PULL ANOTHER SCV OUT. It is important to see how fast they get their barracks, which unit they make first. So what if your probe dies, you've seen the first unit produced and can counter it. In any case, watching the gas timing is crucial. As for getting 2 gate against terran, it's suicidal. If they decide to go reapers or pure marauder army, that's the stupidest thing you can do. The best thing to do against terran is to scout early, 1 gate to 1 cybernetics than more gateway or robo. Again, if they go for proxy barracks and pumps out marines, 2 gate is the way to go.
Lol, early scouting is a must. Early scout lets you do next stuff: 1. Harass terran's building scv 2. Block Zerg's fast expand 3. See if some cheese is going on 4. Get into the terran base before the wall in so you can run around there and see what he will be building. And if he decided to kill your probe 1st then you have delayed him. 5. Hide a probe in other player base to build a pylon there or just to scout his tech.
This is a really all-in type of play style, in most cases if you survive the early push you'll have the game because of the economic advantage he's given up to get that fast barracks (plus no base defense)
