Terran Air Power Omnidiscussion

By popular demand this month's Omidiscussion will be on Terran air power

Please leave your thoughts onthe stat of air power including:

Battlecruisers
--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths
--are plasma torpedos a good fit

The Viking
--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better
-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit b better?
----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still beter such as slower fire rate or less amage in walker mode than flight mode

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good fir for it?
--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?
--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)
--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and inate stealth detection?
----What abilities?

General discussion
--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too muh eye candy
-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus soley on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)

and any other thoughts you have.

As always at the end of the month all you thoughs will be crammed into one page and sent to Jon so he can send 3 sentences to Blizzard

 

Battlecruisers
--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths

great make the battlecruiser more useful and adaptable.

--are plasma torpedos a good fit

lorewise yes. gamewise yes. battlecruiser were useless against swarm of GTA enemies which doesn't make sense lorewise etc.

The Viking

--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better?

No, terran needs a small fast main ATA fighter that doesn't look bulky and doesn't shoot heavy missiles. terran needs a new innovative air fighter.... aka predator.

-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit b better?

bad idea. it takes away the uniqueness and adaptability of the terran viking to transform on the go depending on the enemy they encounter and battle situation.

----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still beter such as slower fire rate or less amage in walker mode than flight mode

i dont think adjustment will make that much different. massing viking can take any enemy air units effectively in most situation which somehow make the ATA attack redundant instead of the other way around.

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good fit for it?

yes. just make the banshee hp low enough to be easily countered when detected.

--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?

i think it should be only effective only against light units or other units that are for base raiding purposes would be useless since banshee are air units and can travel faster.

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?

i dont care. just change the model of this unit. to me it looks out of place and uninspired.

--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)

great. the auto turrets should have a time limit or something and the mine turret well it should have limited mines and the turret itself should have a low hp and is not invisible only the land mines. i think a great mechanic would be when the nomad drops the mine turret the turret scatters invisible mines all over in a circular radius randomly place.

--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and inate stealth detection?

yes.

----What abilities?

another kind of turret would be nice.

but im thinking making the nomad enable to transform into static base defense structure (big missile turret which shoots multiple missiles but it will no longer be a detector) which is anti air since terran is all about transforming and complex mechanics. When transform into a base defense the nomad cannot be move and can no longer change back into an airship. however the nomad in static base mode can be lift off and hover slowly and travel on land but cannot attack, then you can switch back to its static base mode defense to attack air units.

with this... the thor should'nt be an anti air unit anymore and the lack of terran GTA will be solved.

yes the nomad will be very complex, unique, and interesting similar to a siege tank and viking. the nomad in static GTA defense will be like a semi unit semi building thing. the nomadt will serve two different purpose (air mode-detector and drop turrets and ground mode heavy support against enemy air units).

also the nomad concept model should be change bcoz of this (my) idea. i'll try to draw it asap.

General discussion
--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too muh eye candy

its ok. and i really dont mind.

-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus soley on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)

YES.

 

Battlecruisers

It is good. It feels much more mighty then it did when it fired one puny laser and the occasional Yamato blast (which was nice, but wasn’t all that effective).

The Viking
--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better

No, it doesn’t. While a dedicated unit may or may not be the way to go (depending largely on abilities as opposed to basic attack method), the Viking should be geared more toward it’s land based form, with the air form being used to travel distances and maneuver into better attack positions.

-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit be better?

Its fine, a dedicated GTA is unnecessary since enough units can attack what ever is in the air already. The Terran make up strength with numbers.

----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still better such as slower fire rate or less damage in walker mode than flight mode
No, if it is primarily geared toward land combat

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good fit for it?

I agree with zeratul11, give it cloak and fewer hit points (though not TOO fragile, otherwise the Zerg will eat it for lunch, just enough to make sure it isn’t doing the BC’s job of heavy fighting under intense fire)

--Should it only be useful against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?
It should do decent damage against both, really. One or the other would make it a bit underpowered.

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?

It’s fine.

--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (there’s the turret and mine layer that I know of)

Also good as is.

--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and innate stealth detection?

Can’t it repair stuff to?

General discussion

--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too much eye candy

I like the idea, so long as it doesn’t affect game play.

-- Do the Terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus solely on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)

Maybe. If the Zerg get a dedicated AA, the Terran will need something that can protect their ships. If the Protoss get the only one, then another, more general purpose fighter may be a better choice for the Terran, since the Terran could really use something like the Wraith.

 

Battlecruisers
--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths
Great, Fits totally!

--are plasma torpedo's a good fit
The fit perfectly...
Now Terran really has a good capital ship... (perhaps a bit overlap with the banshees, but that's the only thing i can think of)

The Viking
--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better?
The Viking is a really good idea...
And IMO it should be against capital ships (air) and either have a bonus vs light units or mech units in ground form...

-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit be better?
I don't like the idea, but perhaps if the attack would be the half (the bonus vs capital-ships should be divided with 2 too). Then it would only be used if the enemy has air superiority...

----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still better such as slower fire rate or less damage in walker mode than flight mode
Ups, i just said it^

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good fit for it?
Just the right unit for cloak!

--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?
Should have low cost and be effective against marines, drones etc.

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?
I don't really know yet, but I think its a nice new idea!

--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)
Good idea! But the mine-drone comes to late IMO (everyone will already have detection)! Nice to see if they could show us some more turret-ideas, and then let the community have a look and give their opinion!

--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and inate stealth detection?
No/Yes. More turrets seems nice, but other abilities could suit it too!

----What abilities?
^
And Zeratuls idea seems nice (as they always do)!
But not really what i want the Nomad should be!

General discussion
--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too much eye candy
NO. Would be harder to micro, and end in luck...

-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus soley on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)
YES. Either something like the Predator (defensive), or something new, that is good against masses of units...

 

Battlecruisers

I really like what Blizzard has done with this classic unit from the original Starcraft. The rapid-fire lasers are a much better fit than the previous single-shot laser, and much more pleasing to the eye. Having two upgrade paths is a mechanic I've not seen before and I love it! A player can decide to go mainly anti-ground and get Plasma Torpedoes, or anti-armor/large units and go for the Yamato Cannon. Both abilities are appropriate for the Battlecruiser, and a good player will probably need to balance both.

The Viking

The Viking is a new Terran unit that I think Blizzard has done a nice job with. Transformation is another unique mechanic that fits the Terrans well. I think it seems pretty good against larger enemy airships, but a little bit weak against the smaller ones - like Mutalisks, Phoenix, and Scourges.

However, I am very against the ground mode having an anti-air attack. I thought that being forced to choose between air form and ground form would create a serious area of skill and strategy. I'd rather see a different ground-to-air type unit.

Speaking of which, I had an idea that would kill two birds with one stone. Put the Thor back on the anti-air path by changing its Bombardment ability into an Aerial Bombardment, which would be an area of effect attack devastating to clustered flyers. It'd be perfect, getting rid of the need for a ground-mode Viking air attack and addressing some of the weak anti-air the Terrans seem to have at the moment.

Finally, a random, picky complaint. The Viking looks a little bit too bulky and boxy - I always pictured a transforming unit to look a little more sleek.

The Banshee

We arrive again at a new unit in Starcraft II that I think Blizzard is doing a great job with. Cloak is a great fit, and the unit as we've seen it seems to be fine. I don't think anything should be changed here.

Nomad

I'll admit, when we first found out about the Nomad I really disliked it. It seemed ugly - and I wanted the old Science Vessel back. However, it has grown on me a lot.

I like where the Nomad appears to be headed at the moment. A detector that can drop turrets of various kinds - very versatile. It should keep the new area of effect Defensive Matrix, but I like how Blizzard transferred EMP to the Ghost. I do miss Irradiate, but this is Starcraft II and we can't have everything make a comeback. The unit should prove to be extremely useful.

Aircraft Banking

Aircraft should not bank in Starcraft II. It'd be too much 'eye candy.' While it would probably look cool and realistic, it'd make selecting individual units a pain and add a slight element of randomness into the game (accidentally flying into enemy anti-air zones, etc.) One of the things that made the original Starcraft so great was the presence of no real randomness. Do not put any into the sequel!

Dedicated Anti-Air?

As it stands now, I do think that the Terrans are lacking a Starport spot. Battlecruisers are pretty useful all around, but will be quickly destroyed by swarms. Vikings seem great against capital ships and in some one-on-one situations, but will also probably be owned by faster, smaller units. Nomads have no attack, and Banshees are strictly anti-ground.

Now I'm sure Blizzard had a good reason for taking out the Predator, but I do think it had some potential. I'd like to see the unit make a re-appearance. That said, I'd be just as happy with the creation of a new air unit that could occupy the missing Starport spot. I don't know if it'd need to be 100% anti-air, but its primary purpose definitely should be.

 

Battlecruisers
--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths?
Perfect. Makes the Battlecruiser strong against single targets and clustered groups.

--Are plasma torpedos a good fit?
Makes the Battlecruiser more potent then massed Marines or something.

The Viking
--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better?
No it doesn't. The Viking isn't the most flexible air units and is limited to attacking heavy armored craft. A dedicated AtA unit would fit the Terran a lot more than just having the Viking as it stops players from only using the Viking and ignoring its main attributes.

--Is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit b better?
IMO its a bad idea, every other race has fast versatile units which attack both ground and air, why should Terran be limited. Either bring a unit similar to the Cobra back or possibly have a GtA unit with range.

--If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still beter such as slower fire rate or less damage in walker mode than flight mode?
If the GtA attack stays it should only be enough to keep it out of trouble, the AtA attack should be a lot better.

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good for for it?
Cloak fits the Banshee perfect as it works better as a raider as well as hit and run. Having cloak enables it to take out high priority ground targets where other units couldn't reach or wouldn't have the fire power.

--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?
Its good enough as a unit killer, having it as a building killer would make it an air born Crucio Tank with less range but cloak.

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?
Just right, as battles will become more intense a change had to be made and this units abilities fit the Terran perfectly. Although I think the Nomad should get EMP as its more mobile than a Ghost and has detec which the Ghost doesn't.

--What do you think of the turrets it deploys? (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)
Just fine, the rumors about the Turrets having a timer makes them less of a structure and more of a spell. So I'd ope they are strctures which stay as long as they have hp.

--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and inate stealth detection?
Yes.

--What abilities?
EMP.

General discussion
--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too muh eye candy
Nah, isn't really needed and may affect gameplay.

-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator? (don't focus soley on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)
Yes. Refer to the Predator Petition topic.

 

Battlecruisers
--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths?
--are plasma torpedoes a good fit?
The Yamato Gun and the Plasma Torpedoes are a great fit for the Battlecruiser. It lets you differentiate cruisers between anti-infantry and siege.

The Viking
--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better?
-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit b better?
----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA attack is still better such as slower fire rate or less damage in walker mode than flight mode?
The Viking very well could fill the role of main air superiority fighter, But I really want to see something sleek and smooth for that role, like the Predator. The GtA attack is a bad idea in my opinion. It partially undoes the usefulness of the Viking's transform ability - why switch to air mode when my Vikings can sit here and shoot air fighters without fear of being shot back? If the GtA attack is going to stay, it should definitely have either some penalty to firing rate (1.5 or 2 times the cooldown) or a decrease in damage vs. most/all air units.

The Banshee
--Is cloak a good fir for it?
--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?
I think Cloak is fine. I don't see any reason why it's a bad idea for the Banshee. As for the damage, I think it should be decent against both. Decent, not wtfpwn damage. Perhaps a reverse damage bonus compared to the Siege Tank - low damage vs. armored and buildings, good bonus vs, light

Nomad
--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?
--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)
--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and innate stealth detection?
----What abilities?
It's a great replacement for the Science Vessel. I love how D-matrix is now AoE instead of having to build a bunch of Vessels to cast it on all of your units. The turrets sound fine to me. the autogun was described as a stationary, perma-stimmed marine. It sounds a bit imba to me at first, but considering that the Nomad is around tier 3, I don't think it'll be too hard to counter. As for the mine drones, I really can't say unless i see it's HP, mine damage, and reload time for mines. For other abilities, the Nomad should get the EMP instead of Ghost if that hasn't already be implemented. The ghost with an EMP is just too imba.

General discussion
--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too much eye candy
-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus solely on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)
I don't think aircraft should bank when flying. All of them, save the Banshee, are said to be spacecraft, and there isn't wind resistance in space. As for the Viking/Predator dilemma, I'd just prefer something sleeker looking for the main AtA fighter.

 

I think plasma torpedo should be a permanent upgrade and cost 150 energy just like the yamato cannon, that would fit the ultimate capital ship of the terran

 

Um...it is a permanent upgrade? Unless you mean in addition to the Yamato Gun, which would be way too imbalanced.

 

Battlecruisers

the Battlecruisers is very well in Starcraft 2 however I has small problem (complex) over the attack animation.I like very the small lasers in addition, very the large ones, therefore am I the opinion that you can select the attack (my Battlecruisers idea). (I exaggerate and am a little fanatic however excuse me)

--What do you think of the 2 upgrade paths

It is super, the inventor is ingenious l

--are plasma torpedos a good fit

very even


The Viking

--Does it fill the role of main air superiority fighter or would a dedicated unit be better

Yes and No but Terran needs a ATA unit vs. swarms because the Viking is against large units(I think )

-- is the ground to air attack a good idea or would a dedicated GTA unit b better?

Not good,I see the Viking transforming as answer for this question

----If the GTA ability of the Viking were to stay should adjustments be made to ensure that the ATA
attack is still beter such as slower fire rate or less amage in walker mode than flight mode

I am against the GTA Viking however otherwise should it be weaker than in air the mode


The Banshee

--Is cloak a good fir for it?

Yes I plan perfect a tactical bombardment

--Should it only be usefull against masses of light units or should it have enough power to be used to raze bases?

I think that it vs infantry usefull is

Nomad

--Is it a good replacement for the science vessel?

neutral

--What do you think of the turrets it deploys (theres the turret and mine layer that I know of)

I am not very enthusiastically

--Should it have other abilities besides the turrets and inate stealth detection?
no


General discussion

--Should aircraft bank when flying around or is that too muh eye candy
is too much

-- Do the terrans need a dedicated ATA unit such as the Predator (don't focus soley on that Or I will go with the second choice of topics)

hm?
Yes of course (i like the Air Drones of Atreides (Emperor battle for dune) its very interesting roating fly but its too unfair for Starcraft2)

 

As Kaaraa said, they are permenant. You just have to differenciate between the choice of Yamato Cannon or the Plasma Array, meaning you can't have both on one or it effectivly becomes a kinda Terran Mothership.

But on the Viking I hope the GtA attack goes and they make it's ground attack stronger, cause it seemed kinda weak. It took like 16 of them over 10 seconds to destroy a simple sensor tower or was it a AA turret. Either way they need to get rid of the GtA and make the ground attack stronger.

 

It was a Missile Turret that they were attacking in the demo. I agree that they should make the Viking's GtG attack stronger, but not by much. They have twin autocannons, not the plamsa charged doom that Siege Tanks and the Thor are packing.

 

As far as i know the Vikings have bonus vs light (ground form)...
So they will be effective vs marines etc.
But i think they should get bonus vs armored, because Terran does only have 1 unit with bonus against armored (marauder)...
Else TvT will just be a mech fight like in SC1, which wasnt very fun!

 

I have a problem with the Plasma Torpedos TBH. Remember when the Thor's Artillery overlapped with the Siege Tank's regular attack? I think the Plasma Torpedo ability overlaps with the Banshee's regular attack.
The PT is basically 4 or 5 Banshee volleys put together.
Instead of having Plasma Torpedos to deal with clustered units, you should have Banshees. I think they overlap exactly like the Artillery Barrage and Siege Tank did.

A suggestion for the second ability; Irradiate.
Isn't the Yamato projectile some kind of nuclear waste? Irradiate would fit the radioactive theme.

@furrer. The Siege Tank does twice the damage vs armored, cheers to that.

 

I believe that the BC should carry a large rail gun instead of a laser.

The viking is perfect the way it is, but we definitely need a dedicated AtA fighter.

The banshee is absolutely perfect as it is, and yes, the cloak is good.

The Nomad should be able to produce some type of movable assault unit, I think. And as long as it's a detector...then it's a good replacement for the science vessel.

And banking when cornering...wouldn't really fit into Starcraft's 'style'.

And please Blizzard, please bring back the freaking Predator!!

And @ GMG: Plasma torpedoes for the BC give it that needed AtG power it lacked in the original.

 

I thought it did twice against light?!?
But still, i dont want TvT to be tanks vs tanks...
I want that our 3 MMM can be involved too...

 

And the Siege Tank lacks GtA, so should it also be given an ability that covers that weakness?
The PT makes Banshees less needed, which is bad.

 

No it doesn't make them less needed, because the Banshee will be deployed way earlier in the game than BC's. Plus, early in the game is when there will be big marine and M&M rushes, so the banshee is needed then. Plus, who says the guy using the BC is going to use the torpedoes? He might use the yamato gun, or instead just bring in some banshees for support.

 

The Siege Tank is deployed way earlier than the Thor (even earlier than the Banshee is, compared to the BC), yet they overlapped. It's the same thing.

You can barely (if at all) get Siege Tanks before a huge M&M-rush hits you over the head, so how are you supposed to get an even later unit in time?

Who says he won't occasionally use PT? Anyways, that's a bad reason, that's like not making a patch to fix a glitch because people might not abuse it.

Yeah, that's what he should do.

 

aMp's got the right idea. The fact that Banshees are lower on the tech tree than Battlecruisers means they will get plenty of use. Also GmG, you make it sound like Battlecruiser's can just spam the Plasma Torpedoes. Sure, you could stagger the casts, but it's still a big fat 150 energy being used for each ship. It's going to be another minute or so before they can use it again, then 3 minutes or so after that. Let's also remember that Banshees have Cloak, which will make them vastly useful for small raids/harrassment, unlike the Battlecruiser which is more suited for a heavy assault situation.