Terrain/movement types? I want more Hover strategy!

have there been any confirmation as to the types of terrain (as in walkable areas) and the different movement types in SC2?

i mean, there's the standard ground, high ground, cliffs, water (same as open space).
from some videos, it looked like there was also "shallow water." the colossus could move through, but i'm not sure if regular ground units could do it too.

in SC1 there were basically 3 movement types: ground, hover, and air. hover didn't do much, except that it didn't set off spider mines. there were many people (including myself) that were hoping for more strategy from hover units- such as muddy/sandy terrain that would slow down other ground units, but not hoverers. or maybe even dangerous terrain (like hot/spiky ground) that could damage regular ground units.

and now there's also cliff walker/jumpers, which i have to say adds more depth to strategy. but i still want more from my hover units!

 

Probes ftw. h0ver h0ver.

 

Regular units are able to traverse shallow water, as shown in this screenshot. Judging by the look of the rest of the water in that shot though, I'd guess the shallow water is just a visual for a bridge than an actual terrain option.

As for these proposed terrain mechanics, I'm neither for or against them, but I can't see Blizzard implementing it. Everything that directly hindered mobility in SC:BW was ability-based, meaning it was the player's decision on when and where to use them. IMO muddy terrain would only serve purpose at bases/expansions; being placed anywhere else would only slow down the entire game by making both players inch their forces across the map.

 

well, the muddy or dangerous terrain would obviously not cover the entire map. ideally, many maps would have them somewhere in the center, with alternate routes around them. so early game, the player would have to go around them (scouting with workers wouldn't be affected), mid-game with more hover units would allow quicker strikes, and late game with air units players can more or less ignore them.

it would also be a good strategy to place long-range units at the edge of muddy terrain, to slow down incoming attackers (as long as they out-range them).

 

And yet Protoss are the only ones with hover units aside from workers. High Templar, Archons, Nullifiers...with the scrapping of the Cobra the Terrans are back to SCV as their single hovering unit, and Zerg have never had any hover units aside from the Drone. It'd be easier to have muddy terrain affect all ground units

 

As Kaaraa pointed out the number of hovering units per race is not balanced at all, and neither should it have to be: I'd rather sacrifice rough terrain than redesign certain units to hover.

On a side note Kaaraa, Reapers hover.

 

Infestors and the nydus worms could burrow under the rough terrain?

 

yeah, i guess moving while burrowed would be the zerg equivalent of hover... aside from the drone, of course.

in any case, the races don't need equal numbers of hover units. it could just be a race characteristic. zerg don't have a heavy air unit, the protoss have 2, the terrans have 1. terrans have a nuke. the other 2 races have no equivalent. whatever. doesn't mean it's not balance-able. and just because a race doesn't have hover units doesn't mean they can't take advantage of different terrain types.

 

Only the Infestor can move while burrowed. Tell me how that compares to having massable combat units hover, such as the Reaper, or all around having more hovering units, as is the case with the Templar, Nullifier/Disruptor and Archon.

But the terrain would affect the races in an unbalanced way, since it would affect Zerg more. That's like having a Xel'Naga range increasing tower. It would mostly benefit Terran.

That doesn't matter so much until Blizzard introduces "rough weather" that slows down all heavy air units.

 

Well maybe the banelings can use the roll ability to go over the rough terrain quickly? In any case the zerg can fly the overlord over the rough terrain and put creep on it allowing for faster movement and nydus worms. Also the other races can't fly into your base place something like creep in it then send a nydus worm smashing into the center pouring units out.

 

This would only work in a singleplayer setting. Like was said, Protoss have the most "hover" units. So, in the Protoss SP, you could see some maps that would require only being able to use certain units.

As was said in the latest D.B. interview, they wanted to take away all 'randomness' from the games. They want people to lose their units/the game because they didn't play well enough, not "I lost my units because they ran into so and so part of the map."

 

i wouldn't consider terrain differences random. they'd always be there on the map, and if you know the map you know to avoid/exploit it. i wouldn't consider it any more random than running into a cliff.

 

What's the strategic point of that part of the map, then. Like you said, if you know the map, you'd evade it. It's absolutely nothing different than having a body of water on that spot so you can't walk over it. It would only have a place in SP to shake things up. MP would be out of place and utterly useless. It would be there to frustrate the new players even more, which is something they are striving to avoid.

 

it's to give the player a decision. hell, blizzard is already throwing in breakable terrain and stuff. why would they do that instead of just making a permanent cliff? the player has to decide whether or not to invest the time/units to break them down. what's the point of having cliffs when there's cliff-walking units? it gives additional strategy for certain units that can take advantage of it.

same goes for the different terrain. they can take a long route with regular units, take a direct route (but end up getting there in the same time) with regular units, or invest in hover or transport units. or, for damaging terrain, they'd have to decide whether it's worth it to have their units arrive faster, but slightly damaged, or take a longer route.

heck, i just thought of something else. this DOES benefit the zerg, but only if they choose to. since the zerg now get a speed bonus on creep, if they choose to spread creep over the alternative terrain, all its effects would be gone. there, now creep is even more useful.

 

I believe the main reason they added the breakable terrain was because the pro scene had incorporated that into quite a few of their maps. Break down a bunch of these temples to gain access to the rear of their base!

As for the "Decide to tech to hover units to get across without damage/speed loss....we run into balance again. Unless they want to create more units/alter the characteristics of existing characters...that's going to require extensive balancing. Obviously, do they leave the Protoss how they are sitting now, and just tack on more units to the other races, or remove a few of the hover properties on a couple of their units and try to balance it that way.

In the end, they don't need to do this huge balance act in SP, but in MP...that's an entirely different story.

 

it's a balancing act for any kind of new feature they add. doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, or that it can't be done. how about the dark pylon/orbital command/queen spells? having spells that directly affect economy? that was a huge decision. throwing in cliff-walkers? again, a balancing act. AFAIK the zerg get zero, while the protoss and terran have one each so far. two for the protoss if you count "blink" as cliff-walking.

there's no need for the races to have equal number of hover units, because they will approach the problem differently. that's the point of having 3 distinct races, as opposed to 3 mirrored races like Supreme Commander or something.

 

The "Dark Pylon/Orbial Command/Queen" are essential to the strategic value of the game. "Do I spend this energy for more minerals, or prepare for a timed push?"

Your idea is suggesting to take a long way, or lose HP and take the short way. I can't imagine anybody who would take the short way, just due to the fact of that's about a guaranteed way to lose any battle. The maps aren't large enough to warrant a "No mans land" that huge where it's essentially suicide to walk through it.

I really can't see anybody finding it fun and rewarding to have some sort of terrain that would destroy/1/2 HP your units...and using the arguement, "It can be balanced" doesn't mean it's worth it in any way/shape/form. Would you rather them spend their time balancing out units to work around one tiny part of the game "a terrain" or work on something more rewarding, like the expansions, pro scene balance changes, etc?

I hardly see how them taking time to balance for a tile set a good idea.

 

it would be the same people who rush with a smaller force rather than wait for more units to be produced? the people who use stimpacks? if you think numbers are all that matter, and not speed, then you haven't played enough starcraft.

then you can't see very far past your own nose. i remember back when brood wars was released, there was a desert doodad that looked like a bunch of teeth in the sand. people were wondering, some were hoping, that it could be a "trap" built into the map. it's an interesting idea, i've seen many custom maps with it and it can be quite fun.

you also seem to be under the impression that walking on this terrain would kill or maim your units as soon as you touched it. this is what i mean by "balance." they can easily adjust the amount of damage or the amount the terrain slowed. it's a simple number change. whoever said that taking a shortcut would automatically mean your entire army's HP would be in the red? the entire point of this is to add another layer of STRATEGY. if the terrain was so debilitating that every single player with half a brain would avoid it, then it should just be unwalkable.

 

That damage thing wont work. Protoss shields would regen back to normal as soon as they exit the damaging ground. And if the damage is so high even they get badly hurt, Zerglings and Marines, with their low pools of health will die halfway through. Simply put, with the different health systems and health pools varying vastly from race to race, damaging ground would hardly work.

 

could be % based instead of a direct number damage. but yeah, i didn't think about protoss shields. seems like that race would have double the advantage over the other two.