T(me)VP - Counter protoss cannon rush?

TLR - any links to typical strats TVP cannon rush counters? or a quick run down of build prios?

Hi guys,

typical question but the search results were quite bias towards PvP (I understand I guess, must be even worse as prot)

I'm in bronze after just getting out of practice league and I got my 2nd cannon rush - I'd done some research and had the following in mind - 3 scvs to chase down any probe I see enter my base, make that 8 (3+5) if I see a pylon and ensure I leave 2 gathering to prod more scvs.

So i do my standard rax choke and park an scv early - I see him building at the base of my ramp, I thought "great - ive caught him, ill get 3-4 marines out and drop his turret, its not even in my base" - my 3rd marine just about joins the other two which are firing and the f***ing thing is built! - they die right away, the cannon drops my supply depot and im already resource blocked.

So I sprint out my SCVS to a 2nd base - drop it and fortunately have the minerals to tech lab my rax - my CC drops, the scvs unload and my other scvs arrive, but he has a probe there just as my tech labs ready, I set two marauders going and get my scvs (x3) on his probe, another probe gets into my base, I cant afford to put 2-3 more scvs on it, ive only got 3 on my mineral line.

So as my first maurader starts firing on a pylon (is this right? do I need to determine which is the cannon/which is the pylon?) my second gets out and I think I might just be able to counter this - but now 1-2 zealots are trickling in - so I try micro the crap out of my marauders and try to kite his zeals - I dunno how you guys do it effectivley, because I cant tell 2-3 marines to pick different targets, 3 zeals will leapfrog essentially and get 1-2 melee swings in - I start slowly loosing marauds to his zeals - but while this fairly bias micro is going on, he's dropping 1-2 pylons and 1-2 cannons internally... my scvs are relativley low because A: I used 5 to try stop a pylon B: I used 3 to go for a probe C: I had to kite zeals with them and lost a couple in the process.

All this pressure, it seemed, to make up a rough bias estimate, 10-15% advantage over, my production and movement was killing his zeals - but all that time he was building on me, out macroing me and doing it all without gas.

I'm going to traul for videos and replays for countering cannon rush because i'm usually a patient guy - I managed to counter zerg rushes (at least like for like rank/league), I managed to counter early air, 4 gate rushes using a bunker and dedicated SCVs - but cannon rush? nah... I havent a clue... I really dont know - the main thing I'll stress is people talk about all sorts of bull****, ive heard people say medivacs, heard people say deployed siege tanks... are they playing the same game as me? do I have blackout/time lapses in my brain? were not even close to a starport here, we are no where near the time it takes to drop tier 2 research labs AND train deployed sieges

Anyway - rambling - point is, the speed of the cannons build and the fact they dont cost gas made it so even in a perfect world, I'd be having gas drained and he'd have free reign over macro, its a loosing battle from my current knowledge.

Do I really heavily focus on marauders? should I go load up 3-4 single player missions and see how many I can get out in x time? what about the zealots? should I use a bunker choke or will he just drop a cannon at it?

I know its QQ - I understand some strats can seem impossible - but its the most difficult thing I've had to deal with so far as a newbie.

Cheers.

 

What you described, to me, is less of a cannon rush, and more of a cannon contain. Which makes things much easier, as if he is down your ramp, and you are at the top, then he shouldn't be able to shoot up it without vision. (I usually play Protoss, but I am guessing it works the same way with Terran) So the first thing to do would be to try and prevent him getting vision on the high ground by focusing any probes that try and get up,

Whenever this happens to me, I see it as a case of, right, play this as normal, but with the fact I cant safely go out of my base. So. keep up the probe count, while making enough marines to make sure you can fend off any zealots or whatever, while repairing any damage they do to your block, and then make a star port and drop 2 loads of marines in his mineral line. And because of the fact that he invested so much in the forge, pylons, cannons etc, his economy will be weak anyway, and he won't have enough to really defend with, unless he has put cannons down by his mineral line.

Another idea that just came to me, seeing as I dont play Terran, is that you could float a barracks to his base, maybe? or something. In conjunction with the drop it could be quite effective.

Or, you could just build some siege tanks, and blast them to hell and back from the high ground.

Oh, and if you're actually being cannon rushed, focus the Pylons, they die faster.

 

I read a guide about how to do this rush and how to defend it.

I don't remember everything I read, but some tips: 3 scvs are quite many. If you want do chase the probe away real bad, you need a marine, bc the probe can run circles away from 10 scvs without getting hurt. When the first pylon is being warped, take 4 scvs and attack it. If the probe attacks your attacking scvs, send another scv to repair. If the pylon finishes and a cannon is being warped in, don't attack the pylon first, attack the cannon. pylons are cheaper and can be placed anywhere, if you destroy the first pylon, the probe will just build 3 more. The rule is, 4 scvs for pylon or cannon, so if 2 cannons are warped in, take 4 scvs for each cannon. By that time, you should have your first marines already. Once you have your marines, you can effectively kill any probes, so now it makes sense to try to get behind the cannons and try to snipe the powering pylons without taking damage.

Also you can try something completely different, load 5 scvs into your command center and fly away to the most secure expansion you can possibly find and play a normal game. But do try to take out the pylons and cannons, toss like to plant a nexus where they drove you away, since that place is pretty well guarded already.

But as it was mentioned already, you were rather contained than rushed, and since terran like to turtle in the beginning anyways, just build the force you would usually push out with and destroy this little something infront of your base.

 

didnt have time to read the whole post so i apologise, but if a protoss is going cannon rush, why not make a few reapers and destroy his main? its rare to see a cannon rush with defense in there base.

 

You know what - after all my typing your totally right - when I think about it - his cannon wouldnt have shot my **** would it? since it didnt have visability? or would he just move a probe to my block and shoot the door down?

Also - i know my post is long, but I did say I moved my CCenter - and siege tanks is much later - were not talking 10 minute territory, were talking 3-4 mins (extrapolate them times however you like since I dont know the true times, all im saying is medivacs and siege research arent an option at the stage I started to loose - im not talking resouce draining block - im talking rapid rushing) - but your original point is totally valid, he only built at my ramp - not inside my base - my mistake and rage has seriously deminished since you have a fair point - if I just SCV off my base after the rax starts to build (since waiting for second suply depot is too long).

I'll dig in tonight - I seem to do so well vs zerg and terran, like im quite an able player, but the amount protoss that truly fist me its evident im only half decent at certain gameplay styles and not others.

And as above, I guess next time I see this, if he isnt inside my base, hes getting reapers in the ***...

 

tbh even if he is in ure base, as T you have a massive advantage, u can move ure ****. You destroy his main he wont have 400 to rebuild, you move ure base build 5 units and win, not hard when u think about it.

 

Send your 5/6 worker to hold position at your ramp. This prevents any probe from sneaking in unseen. Then use your 11th or so supply to scout his base. If you only see a pylon or nothing at all then he is doing something fishy, so scout the area below your ramp to look for proxy gateways/cannons.

 

If they build canons that fast, chances are there's nothing in their base. Build a proxy rack in their base and target the mineral line and nexus. If the canons start to threaten your command center, lift it off and move it. Once you destroy their nexus, it's gg. I think Force made a video about this on YouTube--you can look that up. I forget what his username is...something with "force" and "strategy" in it. Best of luck.