Swarm Clutches, Creep Tumors and Shriekers

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Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

well, to tell you the truth, i kinda would like it if the queen did not control all of the defences of the zerg, she should be like the terran nomad, where it drops a weaker version of those units but still can have drones morph into the buildings to defend. The drones are supposed to be the building base for every building anyway.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

I don't know much about them, so I'm still undecided...

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

i'm not big on defence, but really i watch the 2 movies where the asin pro played the zerg and the first match was horrible. ZvP. The zerg player had NO defence that would of atleast drove away the protoss zealot assult. Waiting on the queen early out will take tooo long if ur only trying to tech to bigger units. The current zerg build is for rush only players and if the person ur playing over throws your rush theres nothing at home to slow there counter down what so ever. Let me also add the current zerg in team matchers will get them selfs killed if you and ur ally attack some on there team and they live while his ally runs into the zerg players base and walks over ur undefended drones and buildings. I think there should be atleast one defencive building for the zerg before the queen. I dont care if its half the stats of a sunken and spore the zerg need something to slow down incoming enemys.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

I dont completely agree with you there. Personally I wouldnt mind having the old sunkens with the old queen-free system using drones, but I find this fitting Zerg gameplay more.

Zerg are very aggresive, they raid and rape wom- well actually lets not go into that. But yes, they are more of an outdoor race and it feels dumb to sacrifice drones to make very unimaginitive towers like every other game has.
The fact that Queen controlls all the defences bring the game into another dimension. It is an advantage and disadvantage. If youre queen gets killed youre screwed, but if you use it right you can actually use your defensive buildings even as an offensive option. It makes the game more strategic and even more distinct.

Would you really thing of tower rush (or something simmilar) if you had to use half of your drones which would have to mutate into one building and then again into another? At total cost of of (50+75+50) 175 minerals? Ofcourse not, atleast not very often.

Creep tumors wont make zerg defensive race in anyway, actually the amount of spared money and drones can be inputed into producing even more zerlings and offensive stuff of all kind.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

At first I was disappointed to see the Sunken go, it's attack was so iconic...

Then I understood that the removal was vital in order to make the Queen the new Zerg defense.
I thought that ALL structures would function as "sunkens" in the presens of the Queen.

But then I found out that the Queen can make dedicated defensive structures!
WTH, why can't the Queen make Sunkens and Spores then?!

I think that the Sunken should be brought back.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

well, i cant say ill agree all the way but, if one unit solely controls everything and falls then you basically get the rights to cry right there and then. im not saying to not have it removed but, at least retain the drone morphing to a certain extent or so. like how the terran nomad is, it releases those turrets as an assister or harrasser when someone invades.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

I don't really mind either way. From what I can gather, this is just a smaller merged Sunken and Spore Colony built by the Queen. It wouldn't really make a difference if the Sunken and Spore Colony was put back, the only difference being that you'd need to expend two Drones in order to get both an Anti-Ground and Anti-Air turret. This was seems more Drone and space efficient so I guess that I'd prefer these.
The problem that I have with them is that when a lot of them have been built, they look too orderly. They're all exactly the same in perfect rows and columns which completely destroys any sense of Zerginess. In my opinion there should either be slightly different models for each Creep Tumour or they should move around a fair bit. If they all look slightly different then they won't look as orderly nor would they have to be lined up in perfect rows. If the move around a lot then it'll also break up the uniformity because it's not as though they'd all be moving in synchronisation.
The thing I don't like about the Zerg's new defences is the Hive Matriarch's ability to turn all nearby buildings into turrets. To me, that's a really cheesy ability. They have decent static defences with their Creep Tumours and Shriekers, so they don't need some other cheesy way of defending themselves.

The Queen is available at the exact same time that Sunken Colonies were. Getting a defensive building before the Queen would mean that it would have to be obtained before Zerg even got a Spawning Pool, which wouldn't make sense at all. All the other teams need additional buildings before they can get their base defences. Bunkers require a Barracks, Missile Turrets require an Engineering Bay and Phase Cannons require a Forge, so why wouldn't the Creep Tumours require a Queen/Spawning Pool? They're all the same tier.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

That thing is too small,and it look simple,2x2 in size is better

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

Why? Why does it have to be 2x2 size? Tell me one good reason why the creep tumors should be bigger. Aren't their enough 2x2 buildings for the zerg? Is there any strategic reason to do so in order to fir the building with the new Zerg?

2ItzaHexGor: I wish I could power you up! Very nice post, exactly what I am talking about! This new system is allows the Zerg to save money, drones and time which is all that zerg needs. I also agree with you that the current tumor is very unimaginative. I would like to see each tumor looking different, at least 3 different models, they would all have to be similar to not be confused of course but still different with all kinds of shapes and oozy tentacles coming out. Its a tumor afterall.
Also it would be interesting to see them ma bye grow over time, spread or multiply like real tumors do but that's just a crazy suggestion!
Anyways these are mostly just skinning/model issues otherwise I am satisfied with the core mechanic of the tumor.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

Like the idea of early good all round defence for the Zerg. I suspect Blizzard are trying to nerf early rushes which I think is a good move as it encourages more strategy when there are more mid to late games.

The idea of the queen building the defences is a nice one as it makes the Zerg more different to the other races, and it's interesting to use them that way. Losing the queen would be a big set back as people have said so you would need Zerg specific tactics to protect her, making the Zerg even more distinct. The less buildings / units that have a direct opposite number of another race the better.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

Many people keep ranting that the new defense system is very dependant on the Queen and if she dies youre screwed. Well yes there is this down side, but bare in mind that the new queen costs fairly low amount of resources as is hatched very fast so its not like losing a hero in warcraft III while defending you last mine.

I would love to read on some of your opinions and why do certian people want to keep the old sunkens instead of this new one (appart from the skin/design issue which isnt really important in Alpha stage of the game anyways). Is it because its too powerful? Its too cheap and no drones required? Or do you think it dont fit within the game somehow? Or are you jsut stupid and you voted no from pure nostalgia?

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

@ SubTachyon. Thanks for your support. It's good to see that we're both on the same wavelength. I also feel that the Creep Tumours are fairly unimaginative. Most of the other Zerg units and a lot of their structures are heavily tentacle-based, so I definitely feel that they could have more of a tentacle feel, instead of a sack feel, to them.
The idea of the growing Tumour is a good idea, but might be a bit troublesome. I think that instead of it growing over time, the player should be able to upgrade them at higher tiers. Similar to how Creep Colonies could be mutated into Sunken or Spore Colonies, or how Hatcheries can be mutated into a Lair then Hive, the Creep Tumours should be able to mutate into a more powerful defence. The only problem is that this might be a bit too much like the old Colonies for Blizzard to implement. Otherwise it's a great idea and it couldn't fit any other building better than the Tumour.
About Zerg being defenceless if the Queen dies. I don't see where people are getting this from. All of the static defences build while the Queen was alive will still be there, so it's not as though the entirety of the Zerg's defences will be wiped out in one fell swoop. As SubTachyon said, it's not awfully expensive and doesn't take a lifetime to rebuild, so I don't think that loosing it would be as devastating as people may think. Just to reiterate, all of your static defences will still be there, so loosing your Queen would be no different to Protoss loosing their Mothership. It's a significant loss, but it's not as though the fate of the game rests in these unit's hands. The one problem might be that if the Queen is such an important figurehead in the Zerg army, there would be a lot of additional pressure on Blizzard to get it perfectly balanced.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

ItzaHexGor that would me mean u need gas to get to your defence while protoss and terrans can reach a bunker or P-cannon with out gas. I kinda dont think thats even. but who knows it could work

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

It's only 25 gas, and then you're able to build all the defences you need. It's not as though every Creep Tumour will cost gas, it's just the initial cost of the Queen. Seeing as the Creep Tumours themselves are so much cheaper and quicker to produce, I'd say that it's Zerg who get the advantage.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

i2new@aol.com: 25 gas? Oh come on people. 50 minerals and 10 seconds for extractor and one drone getting the gas 4 times. Thats in my opinion well invested money considering what youll get in return. Is it different to the Terran and Protoss? Hooray! SC is about unique races not the same race just reskinned 2 times! And as Itza said I think tumors are actually better than the protoss cannons.

2ItzaHexGor: Not sure if Queen vs Mothership is a good example. Mothership to me is a kind of SCI nuke. Its very expensive and rarely used, yet powerful in the end.
Queen, unlike the Mothership, is a must for the Zerg. I am not saying that all koreans will include them in their tactic but we can expect her in 90% of the games.

You have to bare in mind that Queen is a builder, yes, a BUILDER! Some people imagine Queen being a kind of Zerg mothership, but as you can see in every Zerg video, the Queen is uterly useless in combat. Mabye helpful when you upgrade her to the max but still ntohing like Mothership. Her duty is to build, build, build and serve as an emergency defense if something goes wrong.
If all your probes die, are you defenseless? No! Assuming that you still have units and cannons. Yes sure its pain in the ass but probes themselfs arent important, its the buildings they made (by that I mean the cannons). The same goes for the Queen.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

Sorry, I was just using the Mothership as another example of a unit with a limit of one. I wasn't comparing the Queen to the Mothership, I was just saying that seeing as players are able to get both of them, they're relatable. No-one would think that as soon as the Mothership has been destroyed that all hope is lost for the Protoss, and the same goes for the Queen. That's the comparison I was making between the two. Also, I'd say that she'd be used in much more than 90% of all Zerg games. I'd be thinking ~99-100%. Unless the Zerg player is going for an all out mass Zergling approach or is wiped out before they've gotten their Spawning Pool, I'd say that the Queen would be used by all Zerg players.
Again, I'm sorry if I implied that the Queen was like a Zerg Mothership, but I have to say that the Queen is more than a builder. It has a powerful attack, but when unupgraded, she's just got low health. You could see that she was able to take down Zealots extremely quickly, but wasn't able to last long against them. She's definitely a defensive unit, she'd be trapped if caught off the Creep and all of her abilities are directed at defending your base, but she isn't just a builder. It's not like she's just a large Drone or anything just because she's the one who builds the Creep Tumours, so I'd say that, as you said, despite not being particularly strong on her own, alongside her base, she's the backbone of Zerg defence.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

Attack ground AND air... and at 75 macaroni's a pop - GREAT!

The fact that they are 1x1 is also nice, instead say marines attacking one sunken, now you can space out your defenses and force the other player to micro a bit (chess grid anyone?). Although I would imagine that focus fire kills these at a very rapid rate. Nevertheless, the attack speed is quite fast, and I'm sure Blizz will balance these things out nicely. I could also see one marine with with medivac sent in to absorb the hits and then the rest of the marines wiping the creep with the distracted shriekers. But then I see an Ultralisk unborrowing and and wiping some more creep with the marines. Very clean creep indeed, especially when its poisoned! So you have poisoned creep far away(spread by overlords) to prevent tanks sieging, and shriekers in the back...

The fact that the Queen builds these is a nice mechanic. It adds a defense "layer" of sorts to the zerg gameplay, and I actually quite like it.

I must admit, though, I was a bit startled when I found out that shriekers attack air and ground, my first impression was 'canon-like'. But then it grew on me like some kind of a tumor.

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

I still miss the old sunken that's 2x2,but ok tumor is acceptable if they can def my zerg base again those zealot

 

Re: Creep Tumors and Shriekers

@ afterburner. They're 25 minerals each, not 75, so that's even better! Good point about the additional layer to Zerg defences, as well.
I was also a bit sceptical about them at first, but that was only because I didn't know anything about them, and the information and video in this thread was really helpful. I think that I actually prefer the idea of the Creep Tumours now, but I'd still need to know more about them to be 100% sure and that probably won't happen until I actually play the game. Until then, I guess I'm still not sure yet, but it's definitely sounding like a fantastic new mechanic for Zerg.