So the Sensor Tower got nerfed

The Sensor Tower was once presented as the ultimate Terran early defense. It had a great line of sight and a detection ability. On top of that, it could even detect units in the fog, outside its line of sight.

Now the building costs 25/100, has a similar line of sight as the Missile Tower, and no more detection. With the Missile Tower upgrades to range and firepower, how usefull do you think that the Sensor Tower still is? Is it worth building without the detection? Or will you use Nighthawks in conjunction with Missile Towers?

Also, the Sensor Tower can be salvaged at this point. You get the recources back, and use that for something else. Will you build them more often because of this? Or does it make little difference?
My opinion: salvage that thing. Move on. Use the recources on a new building design.

 

What do you mean by "bring back the original Sensor Tower"? Which version is that, the one that could be upgraded into a Radar Dome, or which version are you referring to?

I don't think it's been nerfed too much. It only lost detection, which the Turrets have anyway. It still has the huge fog of war unit marking ability.

 

I think the detection is essential to the building. How else would it be a true detector? I preffer the detection, and the old version that you had to upgrade. -iirc-

Also, in maps with the Xelly Towers, there will be quite a lot of overlap. And what caused the Thor to change so dramatically? Overlap. The Sensor Tower design is broken, from my point of view.

 

Why does it have to be a detector again? In below quote you talk about how overlapping is bad, yet you want the Sensor Tower to be a detector just like many other Terran units and structures already are. It focusing on its spotting ability is fine IMO.

They are very different. Xel naga towers are indestructible, can be captured by any race and give vision, while the STs only show where units are.

The ST would only overlap if you're dumb enough to build it next to a Xel Tower...

 

I say just get rid of the sensor tower, it's just no longer needed.

 

Leave it as it is as of now. Blizzard made a good choice. You can build, use it, and then salvage it. Awesome. You can then build it agen and then salvage and then agen and then salvage..........

you get my point.

edit: the main reason to have a sensor tower now is to see units in FOW. Im pretty sure they still have that beeping noise to warn players when eneimes are in the FOW.

 

I doubt it will be very useful.

First of all, your main army should be constantly jockying around with the enemy's main army, so you should already know where most of their troops are at all times... if you're not jockying around it's probably because you're a turtling and have already lost.

As for small economy raids; well, the tower only gives you an extra second or two to react, so it won't be effective at all.

The cost of it also means that you won't be building them around the battlefield. It's easier, cheaper and more effective to just send scvs or other scouting units out instead.

 

A second or two could be your entire mineral line getting hit by an AOE, or all of them fleeing safely.

 

Any high level player for any RTS game knows that even half a second matters.

A second or two notice would mean alot to someones next move or action.

And if you ever seen how fast good Starcraft players are you know how important every second is to them.

I say keep as is.

 

Personally, I think that it should be an upgrade to the Missile Turret. 50/50 (or whatever addons cost these days) upgrade to give it FoW sensing.

 

Necromas and Ste: you wouldn't know whats coming, and you wouldn't know where it's going. Only a pro gamer can react appropriately to a drop in a few seconds, and only when he actually knows whats happening.

And you're not even considering the other points I made. If you want an advance warning for raids, just build a barracks for 150 minerals, float it behind your mineral line and voila, a cheaper and more effective scout (you can move it around and it give you actual vision).

I doubt either of you actually play Terran at a high level, if you actually think something like this would be justified in standard play.

 

I think it's good the way it is. I'm gunna be lazy and say: Read what AcE said

 

I think it should have detection but only within it's LOS, NOT the fog of war.

 

Terran defenses have been greatly improved since Brood Wars. What you say there makes little to no sense at all. At least not to me.

I would even go as far as saying that turtling is one of, if not the most effective Terran tactic at the moment. With kiting units like the Marauder, the Thor with 10 range and the strong Planetary Fortress, -40 splash!- you can hold out much longer then ever before. In campaign you also have the increased bunker capacity, and when in real danger, you raise the Supply Depots.

You can salvage the full cost back. So the cost issue should, erm, not be an issue, really.

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The main reason for my negative opinion is this: the Sensor Tower encourages players to scout less, and turtle more. It is able to spot forces way more effective then a few workers, since those have a short line of sight.

I thought that Blizzard was focussing on scouting a lot? Keeping up the pace of each game? Now you need multiple buildings for detection, AND you probably have the Sensor Sweep as well. I go with what Fenix said: make a sensor upgrade for Missile Tower. If they make it an upgrade per tower, it should be ok.

 

Yes, because giving your opponant total map control is so beneficial, right? By turtling, you're
1. allowing your opponant to expand freely
2. making it very difficult to scout
3. making it very difficult to move our once you're finished turtling.

That requires micro and there's no gaurentee that it's going to live long enough for you to do that. Compare it to a floating barracks scout: the barracks is mobile, has a large amount of hp and is cheaper, making it much more effective and durable.

 

Did I say that turtling involves not expanding? No, of course not. You can still expand I see turtling as heavily defending your bases, having your troups stick together. This instead of going outside your base often to harras and scout a lot. Every newbie can tell you that.

The reasons for my statement should be obvious. Missile Towers with upgraded range and attack, upgrades to a purely defensive building! Sensor Towers with insane range into the fog, Bunkers with a higher cap, Planetary Fortress, and these are just the buildings. Mix that with MULEs, high yield mineral patches and Marauders, Siege Tanks or Thors with a huge range. That SCREAMS turtling...

 

Yes it does.

 

What you're saying wouldn't work. If you confine your army to your bases, you're going to get picked apart peacemeal. You need your army out in the field, facing off against the enemies army, if you're going to adequitely repell any major attack. Also, you can't expand quickly or safely without map control, you're going to get outexpanded no matter how hard you try.

I'd also like to point out that sensor towers do not have insane range. They can 'see' twice as far as a normal unit, meaning that you could just put a 50 mineral scv at the edge of your sight range and get better results.

 

I like it fine the way it is now.

I hope it can still "detect" (eg if a cloaked unit is in the fog of war, they still show up) without giving you the ability to target cloaked units.

 

@ Attackfighter
Stop trying to change what I said. It renders your arguments utterly useless.

I never said:

I thought my post was quite clear:

Quite a difference there.

And define map control? Is map control not the word used for the side with the most expansions? Or do you reffer to confining the enemy to their bases?
Having map control guarantees in no way that you win. There are no guarantees in a good rts game. Watch battle report 2, and try to say that map control gets you the game. I rest my case.