So, SC2 ?HAS? super-units/Heroes now…

So, we saw the mothership, I almost thought the Thor would be the terrans, but now it feels more like a powerful attack unit, so terran are ok…but, now the zerg have the queen?

We know that the mother ship is a super-unit, but is it a fact the queen is too now?

Hell, in any other game, a queen unit sounds awesome, and makes sense, but in StarCraft, I’m imaging a game with “no super-units†and just a wide number of units with pros and cons miss-matched in to a common army/force.

Why an issue with super-units? A super-unit, in my minds eye = A vast amount of abilities, or at least very rare/powerful abilities, as well as high amount of life…but the part that stands out from heroes/superunits, is that they take priority for both players to keep alive, or kill – making a huge unti vs unit fight turn into units vs super-unit… you’re no longer managing common troops, but mainly keeping your Main unit alive and active, as your enemy tries to force it down to take a huge advantage, like WC3 is…

Am I the only one “not†wanting this, for “this†game?(starcraft2 if I lost you >_>)

It’s a great feature for Custom maps, it’s a new-refreshing feel for WC3 only* --> Starcraft dose not need super-units, Take them out and put them in custom maps, keep it basic/advance units versus basic/advanced, where nether 1 alive nor dead off sets the whole game.

 

Re: So, SC2 ?HAS? super-units/Heroes now…

Mothership is not a super unit.

Queen is not a super unit.

Read the lore behind them and you will see. They are not heros either. The Queen IS the Zerg base in effect, wich you have at your control.
Mothership simply solidifies a win if it is produced.

Killing a Queen or Mothership does not mean lose for the current player, Both can function with or without them. Depending on play style and circumstances is when the choice of these units will become more needed.

For example: A Terran player has a killer amount of units, everything you do seems to fail. What do you do? Create a Mothership with your last minerals and launch that final assult to claim the game.

The Queen is unique and is un like any Starcraft unit which adds to diversity.


Edited: please do not insult other forum members.

 

Re: So, SC2 ?HAS? super-units/Heroes now…

I'm in a category of hated people? xD

For starters, we are still limited on information given, and unit details do change over time.

But can you not reason with me what the Queen in SC2 is currently?

It feels like it has a powerful/fast attack, downs marines in one hit, even the ultralisk in the same game play video took 2 hits, it warps from base to base- you said your self it keeps the base alive/functional - which is a very nice feel - till you realize, is that not too much for a unit you can create a mass amount of?

Well, can you? Can you create a number of queens for x amount of food? Or is it limit of one, pardon, I've been searching for info on the queen - can't find it.

If you only get one, and it has better then average abilities...is it not close enough to the "super-unit" category?

Reason with me, even if you hate me sir... I pray tell you're on the right side slapping me in the face and truthfully telling me the game still has no super-units.

Edited out quotes. Please refrain from quoting the entire previous post.

 

What Zergalicious said was right, all they just do is another choice/strategy you can go for

 

I am completelly FOR the Zerg Queen and Protoss Mothership as superunits.

As for the Terrans, they always had their Super Attack, the Nuke. I think it is perfect as it is now

 

Notice Zerg don't have Sunkun colonies or Spore colonies. The Queen suffices for them. Also being natural Zergs wouldn't really have an actual structure that attacks. They use them selfs as weapons.

The Queen does two hits per attack cycle.

Meaning every hit does from 30-40, which equal up to 60-80 per attack.

Also how could it be a super unit if a Ultralisk could probably kill it.

Relative to cost and stuff Ultraliks would beat a Queen. That rules out the Queen being a super unit.

Also the Queen is only one per Zerg player, they basically keep the broods in line, aiding them in defense or passive attack.

 

I was feeling the heat in this topic, haha - so I did another search through, got some info on what is "known" about the queen as of yet...

so...it's not a attacking type unit,(You don't send it at your enemies base, unless...you're tower rushing?) it just helps you manage/expand your base, while - you also state, and this shocks me, "zerg" no longer get to set Creep colonies to turn into Anti-air, anti-ground buildings? Our only defense is what the queen sets?

Dose...that not imply that if the enemy downs the queen, all further defensive buildings are put on hold till you make a new queen? That part I'm worried about, feels like( depending how long it takes to get the queen back out) that killing one can cripple a player similar to killing a mini hatchery.

Eh, it's just I'm used to how starcraft 1 was all about basic/advance units in power/abilities fought in mass amount, and killing 1 never changed the tides, killing a good number did...so I "take-back" the superunit theory, but still loath the concept if we get options to make 1 single unit that changes the players whole strategy or play style for the game or specifically that map.

 

Link please?
I think the attack gets stronger with time/tech, else queen rushes would be used

 

From the impressions of people that have played it, the Queen is a rather weak unit early on, only getting stronger with upgrades to the Lair and Hive. The Queen does not appear to be a super unit or hero on its own, as most of what it does is augment base defenses.

If the Queen dies, quite a large chunk of the base's defense goes with it: only the defensive eggs left in the creep and other units will be available until a new Queen is spawned.

Consider it to be the "embodiment of the Zerg defense" rather than a hero, because hero it is not.

 

I remember when Blizzard first announced SC2, the protoss mothership was a superunit only allowing on the field at a time, but then that changed. Its still good, however, i do miss the feeling of impending doom from seeing it.

 

Wha-wha-what?!?! That's what I'm talking about, do you, do we...really want that?

That's such a huge role it has, and for a enemy to down it for such a triggered effect would be horrible :-\

Now, I know it can base hop, but still - you have to watch it as though it "were" your base if it truly takes away all that it built if it dies =/

sigh* Sounds like too much for 1 unit.... the only one to date in Starcraft is the main building of every race, now you have that, and plus 1 more for the zerg >.< sigh*

I dislike 1 kill/create units = potential victory, I believe cutting off spawns/resources, and the remaining force are key ways to victory, but if killing a queen weakins all of the zerg's built defenses from that one unit, I'm not liking the sound of that -_-

 

Re: So, SC2 ?HAS? super-units/Heroes now…

RationalThought quoting posts right above yours is against the rules, keep that in mind

Queen gets stronger with upgrades, I think it didn't one-shot marines in Savior's match when he had weaker version than the one in gameplay trailer

imo it's understandable that some would be against one of a kind units but I find the concept of queen really interesting. It adds alot difference between zerg and other races which was always one of starcraft stronger suits.
Remember that stationary defenses were never your only defense. Small group of siege tanks or guardians could easily overcome any number of towers that weren't backed up with units that could move in range and destroy long range attackers. Replacing colonies with queen just adds to zerg micro in defense and forces zerg to focus on attacking since there is less to prepare in terms of defense.

btw. I don't think queen rushes will be used alot if at all, queen is very slow compared to zerglings so enemy will always manage to put up some defences, she isn't very strong in the field either and losing her makes you very suspectible to counter attacks

 

Lol, what? >_> fine, if I can't quote the person above me via quoting them, which I only did to show what my response was too, I'll do this:

To Meee (no, not me, him - the person above me, yes...Meee )

Mhmm, I like it from a glance(in a custom map sense), but at the same time, I Loath it.

The big part I think I've yet to see from the response in this topic, are that apparently you are all in favor of 1 unit with the power to control, defend, and expand the zerg's base(s). (and have such a high risk factor if it dies)

What I'm trying to get across to you is, that 1 unit with that much responsibly, plus blow back for their death is a feature I'm not liking, and I thought more would be on my side.

I see what you're talking about, that a base with no units in the zerg's case, gets wiped easily, well - that's with any base when siege kicks in.

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The thing StarCraft 2 shows, is that you don't NEED 1 unit to control the defenses, everyone is getting better/easier ways to transport mass units from area to area...aside from the nydus worm, the queen sounds like the head defender if no one else can reach the base...and that worries me.

I'd rather have weak or temporary zerg units spawn for defenses then risk your whole defenses 'set' on that Queen. If it truly has such a high blow back for dieing, why on earth would I make it engage the enemy, let alone get near them? =(

 

Your reply is by default targeted at the most recent one so there's absolutely no need to quote it all.

I do see your point, but that is your opinion. You're entitled to one, but it doesn't mean others have to agree. Also I said it's interesting, not necessarily best idea ever or anything.
My guess would be to wait for more info about this and how it turns out in the end, if they realise that losing it is too easy and cripples zerg too much they will tweak it or bring back regular defenses.
If it stays, well you can just play other race, kill the queen and decimate defenseless opponent, right?

 

Well, I know it's my opinion, but I wouldn't bring it up unless I thought more people would be in support of removing all that weight on the queen.

Seems they all see it "ok" for now, and it stings me, because I was fond of the zerg more then the other 2 races, which follows up to your last comment, there is no room for another alien race in my heart...I'll get sick if my fav race is changed into a new look/feel/playstyle race :no:

 

I always saw Zerg as mainly offensive type with aggressive gameplay style, I don't see how queen changes it if she doesn't come out of the base

 

Then you see them the way I do, as well as the way they should be view'd.

Perhaps I am being over-dramatic...ok, I'll admit that I am, but if anything, the key point I'm trying to make is, I enjoy Zerg for their mass numbers in offensive attacks, yet the one defensive set-up they have(in SC2 atm), by the sounds of it - comes with a heavy cost of one unit dies(queen) cripples the zerg's limited defenses even more.

Heck, if the Nydus worm becomes a key feature of travel -- I'll just hide my queen and use my units to defend my bases, if the queen is optional to build/create, and such a cost - I'd possibly just scrap it...I only hope that Queen slot dose not limit the zerg's arsenal in offensive choices ;-)

 

RationalThought I was woried too when i saw the queen the first time, that the Zerg would play defensive. But they have no sunkens/spores, so i do not think the Zerg will be to defensive, eventhought they have the Queen!

 

It shouldn't be a concern if Zergs can or cannot play defensively. All races should have the options, and let the player make their choices. The smartest one will still prevail, as long as the rules are fair (= game being balanced).

BTW, Queen, as a "super-unit", fits the Zerg much much more, as they have the best unit production method. Even if the Queen is killed, it will be remade quickly, as opposed to a Mothership and the Protoss slow and expensive teleport. Zergs can spawn another Queen anywhere, and bring it back. With the Queen as easily targetable unit, slow, big, single, she won't fit well in attack, and Zergs will be able to focus MORE on attack, letting the Queen do the defense. They've always had the worse defense anyways, and changing other units would change more their stile than making a specialized unit for that purpose, imo.

 

Using the Queen as a main defense manager is a step too fair in my mind. It makes sense lorewise, but it completely changes the way Zerg plays. I personally would feel very insecure having a base with absolutely no dedicated defensives structures.