Shields

Most of you probably remember most units form all races starting out with a higher base armor such as the Battlecruiser having 3 armor upgraded and the carrier having 4. One thing though that I always noticed was that even though to Protoss rely heavily on their shielding and it is part of the racial distinction every single unit from the lowly zealot to the grand carrier had a base shielding of 0.

This should be changed. It is only natural for a large unit to have better armor but they should also have better shield's too. What use is the armor bonus if it only affects half of the damage the unit takes? By having some units have a base shielding would make the shields a more important aspect taking them beyond just extra damage absorption; not only would it make the Protoss units more powerful but would also make bypassing the shields with an EMP of plague all the more dangerous requiring the Protoss player to be more on guard. In addition it would force players to adapt and would encourage new techniques involving the bypassing of the shields to get to the soft unit inside.

To balance this out the base armor might need to be lower; for example the Carrier would now have 3 base shields but would only have 2 base armor. The higher shields would make the unit survive longer under normal circumstances but would cause more peril if it is hit by an EMP.

Do you think some Protoss units should have a higher base shielding than 0?

 

I'm going to say no. Now here's my reasons.

A. Its simply too powerful in my opinion, sure the regular armor would be lowered, but regular armor doesnt regen like shielding does.

B. Emp is cool and all, and would certainly help the terran...but unless the zerg get a similiar effect, this would unbalance the races, and isnt that what starcraft is all about?

C. Buildings. Protoss buildings use shielding, this will make them MUCH tougher if it applies to say..photo cannons. Again, this is an IF.

Now I know what you are saying, a carrier SHOULD logically have more shielding then say a zealot, but still...I don't like anything that would unbalance the races.

 

Yes, I think some should but I'd disagree on changing the Carrier. I would rather see unity types get better shield and lower armour, namely, the units that are related to the Dark Templar. I know there were some units without base armour in SC (Probe, Scout, HT) but generally speaking, it was normal for any Protoss unit to have at least 1 armour and 0 shield. That should stay in SC, however, DT related units (Stalker, Warp Ray) should have it the other way round: mostly 0 armour and at least 1 shield. That would make them even more unique besides having the DT themed colours and story.

Neverthelss, I'd gladly forget about base shields other than 0 if we got the Shield Battery back :upset: It's insane that they simply regenerate like Zerg.

 

Zerg get plague.  To me that is actually more powerful than EMP becuase there is nothing you can do about it.

As for imbalances they could tweak HP you know That is why I said lower the armor rating for the carrier

as it is the carrier can take 350 damage but only 200 of it gets a damage reduction.  You all saw how in a 3v1 fight the BC almost took out a carrier.  a shield boost might help that a little

On the topic of buildings they don't get any armor bonuses so why would you expect them to get a shield boost?
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The types sound interesting

Why is it insane that shields regenerate?

 

I think he confused it with shield upgrades. But what you're saying is having more than 0 as base. Buildings would obviously stay at 0, this is a good idea only for units.

edit: I meant the way it now works: no regen while under attack but fast regen when left alone. I think that aspect of shields should stay as they are in SC.

 

Yes although I always though buildings should have the option for upgrades in the original.

 

Building shields get upgraded in SC along with our units AFAIK.

 

No the photon cannon has 100/100 shield and HP , so that mean's a total of 200 , the terran bunker has 350 , zerg sunken has 300 , spore has 400 , so the photon cannon is actrully weaker and the shield isn't stronger then the HP it self! and other building's like nexus and command center and so as well with hatchary , it turn's out to be around the same HP in total! , so YES! , make it stronger! and also You can't repair the protoss building's , so hence zerg can by slowley regaining HP and terran can repair , poor protoss can't!

 

Good idea. Makes sense. It seems just based on visuals that Terrans should have more armor than Protoss anyway... The Protoss seem to mix elegance with strength, while the Terrans just go for absolute power

And yeah, more powerful protoss units should get higher shields than weaker... only makes sense - let the psionics be more important than the metal

and yeah, this should only apply to units... maybe key structures might get a base 1 shield... but no more than that owerup:

 

@ kuvaz but armor didn't upgrade did it?

@ cory So with the cannon able to take less damage than the other defences why would giving it shield upgrades be OP?

@Nate yeah I always though the carrier having more armor than the BC was fundamantally wrong because it l looks less heafty and was cheaper

@ everyone: Gah stop posting while I am posting its annoying

 

coreyb, we're not talking about shield points.

BoP, I don't know about armour, they weren't displayed, but shields were and they did get the upgrades.

 

All shields are the same. The size of the unit affects the energy behind it but not the technology. The Colossus for example has a upgrade that raises it´s Shields by 100 Points.
I doubt it would make a big difference, expect give the Terrans a advantage.

 

all shields shouldn't be the same however... different Protoss have different levels of mental 'toughness'

also combined efforts should increase the effectiveness, like on craft that have whole teams of Toss working together to maintain the shield

 

Lets define terms before moving on
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Shield Points (SP) the amount of damage the shields can absorb before damage is taken by HP
Shield Level the amount of damage reduction the shield receives, this is what is granted by the shield upgrade.

shield level affects the shields by reducing damage in the same way armor level affects HP by reducing damage against it.
_________________________________________________What I am saying is should some units like the carrier get a higher shield level allowing the shields to reduce damage without the shield upgrade


@ Nate also bigger unit would have a shiled generator. Th carrier shield is generated through technology while the zealot is mental

 

Are you telling me that the plasma shield is a mental ability? WTF? I always thought it's a physical blockade against enemy projectiles. Please tell me Nate is wrong. Otherwise... I don't know, it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

It is a mental ability on the infantry a technological ability on vehicles

 

The shield level should definitely be higher on the larger Protoss units. But wouldn't the Mothership be a much more logical choice to have the biggest starting amount? It's a huge ship, so there is lots of room for generators, AND accoring to the lore it has a huge kaydirin crystal wich is loaded with psionic energies.
Wouldn't that make the Mothership the best candidate for better shielding.

Also, I completely agree with BirdofPrey saying that the units should have lower armor and/or HP, since the shields can regenerate and the armor can't. The balance should be able to stay normal that way.

 

it's mind power making a physical presence... at least I thought so - ie:Tassadar makes warp blades come from his hands, etc

 

I found something else out. Shileds take full damage regardless of damage type and unit size. Should that stay the same? Shields are already bad anoug only being 1/3 of the damage absorbtion on most units

 

Shields will profit from the new damage system, meaning that they are already improved. In BW the Shield portion ALWAYS took 100% damage (Maximum in BW) wich is a lot worse than starting with shield level 0.
If the system is taken for SC2 it would mean a radical improvement since 100% is now the MINIMAL damage.

Making the Shield more prevailant compared to the HP... could work but It would detract from the Archons uniqueness. As of BW Shield != HP but not Shield > HP in terms of "usefullness", it would depend on the SC2 Shield mechanics and abilities interacting with them. Shield Batterys have yet to be seen again.