September Discussion of the Month: Zerg Creep

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This month's community discussion topic is the Zerg Creep! The topics comes a bit late but will be continuing partly into October, and with the proximity of BlizzCon will probably continue until late October. There is some new information that comes with this discussion, including increased movement speed of Zerg units (except Drones) on Creep which should create fun Zerg defensive and offensive strategies, and will certainly liven up the positioning battles in Zerg vs. Zerg matchups.

So once again, StarCraft fans, this is yet another chance to influence the development of StarCraft 2! If you have opinions about this month's topic please discuss it in our forums so that it can be shared with the Blizzard development team! Enjoy!

One of the distinct features of the Zerg is their fast movement, quick reactions and their large numbers. With the newest changes to the StarCraft II build these attributes are bound to reinforced once more.

Here are a couple of changes to the Zerg:

• Zerg units except Drones can now move 30% faster on creep
• Creep Tumors are smaller and burrowed

These changes will have a big impact on Zerg strategy, since covering terrain with Creep will now be very important. We will see Overlord rushes with mass spewing of creep and Zerg fast micro on creep. The burrowed Creep Tumors will force the other races to get quick detection to push back the Zerg Creep and take their fast movement.

If you have a StarCraft II fan site and would like to participate, please email me at karune@blizzard.com.

Questions for Fans:

• What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
• How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
• Do you like or dislike the change? Why?

Starcraft2Forum.org Specific Questions:

• Do you think these changes should result in disadvantages for Zerg off Creep?
• Should Creep bonuses apply to Zerg units on enemy Creep?
• How will this change early game strategies?

Each StarCraft II fansite will be featuring different types of questions, so be sure to also visit those sites. All of this feedback will be compiled and sent to the dev team.

Source: Battle.net

 

September is half way over, LOL .. But, we all know that these discussions last much longer than the month it was started

Zerg move faster on Creep.. Hmmm.. Interesting... I probably would have never thought of that! Good job, Blizzard! I hope they can turn this into an interesting mechanic.

So, the Creep Tumor is now a bit like the lurker... Correct? So, what purpose does the lurker have now other than the fact that it can move off the creep.

 

The change is cool but what's the explaination behind it? Storywise I mean. Because it seems like from a storyline point of view, it would make more sense if the units from other races moved slower right?

But it is nice that Creep gives some sort of advantage to the Zerg now .

 

Hm, i like this change. You really have to think now before you go and attack zerg base. Not that didn't have to before, this just makes it all the more difficult.

 

I really enjoy this! You rarely ever see the zerg using creep offensively. This will help to add that extra bit to the strategy that those silly Koreans love so much.

 

It's slimy...they slide across it.
I would really rather not have other races move slower on it...



* What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I think thats a large speed increase. I like the idea though. Do zerg units move slower on non creeped area? An ever so slight speed reduction, or just making their units a tad slower in general.
Does this affect air units?

* How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
As a primarily Terran player, I am very worried that spreading creep will become easy, and I will find my bases and expansions full of creep every time I am raided by Zerg. I would be alright if the creep could be dispelled, or removed somehow, or if a tumor was destroyed the creep reduction rate was quicker. The overlord ability to 'puke out creep' could become an unfair way for zerg to prevent non Zerg expansions.

* Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I like where Blizzard is going, but I would like to see zerg units move a tad slower in general to compensate, but just a little. 33% speed increase is quite a boost. I would also like Terran and Protoss to have ways to remove creep, or tweak some mechanic so the spread of creep can't be too abused.

 

I like the sound of the change. One more reason why dropping creep with overlords could be important.

 

being a zerg fan and player i really like the idea of this, though that speed boost IS fast ;P i would think maybe 20%?

what do you think of the speed increase on the creep?

i think its very great, and it makes the "creep expansion" that blizzard is trying to make all the more purposeful. maybe not as fast a speed but i like how its helping the zerg, instead of limiting them to building only there...

how will thie affect the Terran, Protoss, and Zerg?

the terran and protoss will think twice about attacking zerg. its make the player think that much more harder... "should i take the risk or losing my whole force? or go in and take out the creep?" though it also depends on how fast the creep goes away. if it goes away as fast as in SC then it would be harder to kill zerg. hopefully the terran and toss get a kool boost like the zerg have.

do you like the change?

i like the change. its a really great add for the zerg. it really adds the feel of "zerg infestation" to the game and brings in the "pro creep" making.

-Zerks

 

I like it, but creep reduction should happen quicker.

 

i like the idea gj dev team.

im wondering if its possible to compile a list of other sc2 fansites and their questions?

 

I like the idea of the speed increase so the player has more reasons to push the creep further rather than simply keeping it large enough to build certain buildings.

If the zerg move faster on the creep, wouldn't it make sense for other races to get a speed decrease while on the creep? Maybe too much movement speed items going on but it would make sense that as the zerg's home turf they would get faster, while to other races the "unnatural" footing would slow them down a bit.

This would make Zerg defense pretty crazy I'll admit as they can run down other units that have decided to retreat, but I still like the idea. It'll make other players really dedicate their forces to an assault.

 

I think that you hare a very important point. Since creep is slow to disappear and fast to appear (Overlord vids) it's going to be hard to Pro and Ran to reduce the creep of a Zerg that keeps sending units/ovies.

The creep from Tumors and Over should disappear as fast as it got there.

On the other hand I would not touch the creep decrease rate of a Hatchery/Lair/Hive. If a Zerg gets focused fire a single hatchery you need some time to put in a proper defence back and a Hatchery back.

If Zerg building looses HP while not on creep and if creep still damages non-zerg enemy building, Zerg just got enhanced with massive different strategies here.

Great job Blizzard, is this balanced?

 

* What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

Great idea ! The creep is a substance that FEEDS the Zerg units and structures. It is kind of normal to say that they should keep an advantage on the creep in comparison to the other races. A speed increase for Zerg units on the creep ? Funny ! 30% ? It's not exagerated.
But what for the other races ? Should they walk, move on the creep "normally" ? I mean they move on the creep, they should slip on it. With the idea of speeding the Zerg movements on the Creep i suggest a diminution of speed of the ground units of other races. Maybe at 20% or 30%.
But to allow the other races enemies to prevent the creep to colonise the whole wcreen the player will have to get detection abilities fast in the game. That's what Blizzard suggested. So the detection units should be available early in the game to detect the Burrowed Creep Tumors which spread the creep around the map ! Especially for the Protoss ! The observer is built from : Cybernetic Core ->Robotic facility -> Observatory. It's too much. ...The observer should come earlier

ANOTHER SUGGESTION :

That's a suggestion I talked about some months ago.

In the manual of Starcraft it is written that the Creep feeds the Zerg structures.
It should be also good to allow maybe just the Zerg ground units to speed their life level up, their health once they are ON the creep. Imagine you have wounded hydralisks just send them to the creep and the regeneration will be speeded up to, maybe, 30%. And for the Lurker for instance ? This unit should get out from the ground and "eat" the creep.
I suggested in the past to have an upgrade to speed up the regeneration of units on one side, and the structures on the other side.
Protoss have shield battery to allow units with low level of shield to recharge them. Now the Zerg have the ability to go to the creep to feel better

 

Recent tech tree change
Observers are now coming directly from Robotic Facility. No pre-requirements from Observatory anymore.

 

isnt this EXACTLY what i asked for like 8 months ago?

<><><>< PERFECT MECHANIC ><><><>

now one last thing... will there be an upgrade to increase the rate at which the creep expands!

 

Hmmm......

Questions for Fans:

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
Personally I beleive that 30% is far to much and should be reduced to atleast 20% to 15% because that would give a large and unbalanced effect in the early game for the Zerg and should also be an upgrade to be purchased in the mid game.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
I beleive this wil drastically change the way people viewed the zerg as before. People will see them as a faster moving ad very all out agressive race. The Terrans are also being left behid in the early game leaving their expansion severly slower that the Zerg now. This will be a more challenging aspect for the Protoss players to overcome with new stratagies and tactics and shove micro more into them as it already is.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
Yes and no. Yes I dislike this change because 30% speed increase is immense if you already bought the zerglings their speed upgrade. This will make them actually harder to control for the zerg players. I also like this change because it is another unique thing BLizzard has thought up and is not a total shot in the water.

Starcraft2Forum.org Specific Questions:

Do you think these changes should result in disadvantages for Zerg off Creep?
I would beleive players would ask Blizzard to slow down the overall movement speed of the Zerg to balance out the massive speed upgrade in their creep zones, thus this will make them slower on non-creep zones.

Should Creep bonuses apply to Zerg units on enemy Creep?
No this would get rid of the need for expanding creeps as there are already others and entire map sections could be no-mans land for Protoss and Terrans. I do think Zerg would are allies should get the bonus as they are not enemys and would be and interesting tactics would be made.

How will this change early game strategies?
This will give the zerg a horrendously large advantage in the early game and should be reduced.

 

30% speed increase on the creep is just too much. I would say more of a 20 to 15% would be better but thats all balance issues what we want to talk about is the overall idea of it.

What do I think of the speed increase? I think its an interesting idea but giving arguably the fastest race a speed increase..... lets just say when you give your lings the speed upgrade they will be zipping around your creep like it turned form purplish goo to white powder.

How will this affect game match ups? quite simply I think zvz will turn into a rush race. zvt will start to look like a age of empires 2 game were you both just sit in you own walled up town and wait for the other person to attack....to avoid sounding too negitive both have some really cool raiding abilities but that seems to be all they can do raid and defend. zvp I honestly don't know what will happen.

Do I like the changes? yes and no, I like them because it gives a new fresh use to the purple goo and it separates form the pylon energy circle. No I don't like them because it gives the zerg a new way to defend their base witch in my opion should be terrans main element.

 

I think the speed will be reduced to maybe 15 or 20 %. 30% is, indeed, too much. That would give unbalance

 

I prefer an alternative to speed increase.

Maybe certain units can consume a small portion of the creep to restore 100 energy points, and creeps that's been consumed will take longer to recover.

Or standing on creep will increase a unit's recovery rate.

 

Here is a few thoughts I had on the whole Zerg creep thing. It doesn't really answer the question but it's useful info anyways.

Zerg: They have an ability to heal themselves. Ground and air units. But only over their own creep. Off the creep they can't heal themselves. But the on creep rate would be say 50% more then the healing rate for Zerg in SC 1. And also they'd have the move faster ability. it'd be ground units only. And be a tier 2 researchable thing.

How can we balance this with the other races? Well here is an idea of how this could be done.

Terran: There is 2 options here. Actually having one or even both of them isn't a bad idea.

1. A tier 2 researchable ability. And this would dramatically speed up the movement of buildings launched in the air. As well as the time it tales to launch/land them. I've never heard of anyone who moves Terran buildings in SC 1 as part of their game plan. And with this, moving them might just become a worthwhile option.

2. Another option is to increase the build rate of SCV's. So all of the buildings are built faster. I'd make this a late tier one researchable ability. But I'd make it rather expensive. So players have to choose early on, this ability or more units. Having it later would really reduce the effectiveness because most of the buildings are already built.

Protoss: I would for them make a tier 2 researchable ability that increases the effective radius of their pilons. So buildings can be built further away from one but still be under their influence. This could be used so players build their buildings at the outer edges of the pilons radius and then research the upgrade. And with the extra outer space gained, then defend them with photon cannons or something.

And the percentage increase for all 3 races new abilities I just mentioned would be the same. As would be the time taken to research. Well maybe the Terran a little less cause it has increased cost compared to the other races two. But they'd be available at different stages for each race. Basically the best time to maximise the effect for each race.