RTS Design

Is anyone here interested in RTS design? Specifically for a new game in this genre, the designing of the races, and the units/buildings/tech trees.

 

Only mods for existing games, really.
I have made maps and mods for Warcraft 3, Homeworld 2, Freelancer, Red Alert 2, Age of Empires, Empire Earth... Hmm, just a lot of popular retro rts games. Oh, and mods for Morrowind, of course. But why are you asking?

 

to make a new game

 

From scratch?
Kinda the wrong community to ask, I guess.

 

Yes from scratch, but I am only asking about race design. Starcraft players seem to understand the genre better than most, so I'd prefer to get some design input from a starcraft player.

So in that respect this seems like the right place to ask, but on the other hand, if people here are interested only in starcraft, then maybe not

 

What do you have so far then? Do you have a team?

 

I don't have a game engine, but I do have various bits done that will contribute to one.

The largest pieces I have at the moment are:

• Almost complete unit data management, which incorporates a data loader using easy to edit text files which can be used to define/modify most of the game data.
  
• Also in-game attribute management, that incorporates damage calculators and buff management, and attribute modifiers, and HP regeneration.
  
• Units have action states and run simple AI for auto-acquire and related states.

I don't have any races designed, and no graphics are drawn at the moment. No GUI. No unit navigation. It does have hard coded game mechanics, so armor will always be handled the same way for instance.

 

Pff... You did all that on your own, without any help?
Blizard is stil hiring people, you know. -biggest compliment you can get in my opinion-

But this is way out of my league. Sorry. I thought you wanted to make a total conversion for an existing game.

 

You should try to google "rts design" sometime. I get lots of discussion forums, teams and whatnot when I google it. No idea what sites you visited, but most of the pages that pop up here are quite dedicated.

 

I don't have a team, no.

But as I say, what I'd like is to get input from people to help design races. They don't need to know about the programming.

So people who are creative, as well as understanding rts games, such as understanding the game play dynamics between marines and zerglings... and understand why the big siege weapons should be tier 2 and not 3 -- that sort of thing.

 

Hmm.
I could help with thinking up units and stuff related to that. What's the theme?

Even if this doesn't turn into a real game or something, it should be fun to do. But maybe just pm or e-mail this stuff, or move to space junk. This will take lots of posts.

 

Theme is open

I did have the idea of some kind of hybrid of fantasy and future, and no I don't mean space orcs and cosmic elves.

Maybe a future age where humanity has split into substrains:

• One race of mentally degenerated people who have relied for centuries on high tech automation to make decisions for them. Allied with mechanoid infantry. Slower build.
  
• One race of enlightened beings who rejected automation, and gained supernatural powers. Imagining a fashionable mystical goth race, whose magical effects generate green glows around their structures. Association with the moon maybe? No zombies or anything like that, as it's more psi than necromancy. Not sure about melee units or mechanicals.
  
• And one tribal race who have developed a kinship with animals. Hardened to survival, and they worship powerful ancient gods who imbue them with developing special skills -- mastery of beasts, command of blood and fire, and summoning of divine forces. Not sure about air units here.
  

This doesn't have to be the theme. This is just an idea I came up with.

I think I'd prefer to discuss this in open forum because then we can bring together ideas from as many people as want to have a say.

 

Hmm. Let me think up some stuff for a while. I'll post here again tomorrow or something. I am of to bed.

But to add something:
You should really use another game to build this on, takes a lot less effort.

Making a big mod for Warcraft 3 is already lots of work. We have 4 races to completely alrer there, a working game engine and hundreds of custom models all over the web.

Starting out with that would be a lot better. Making a true videogame is a tremendous amount of work. Even for a huge team of people. I would be happy to help out if you decide to make a Warcraft 3 mod, or any other game that has a decent editor. Making a true game... Just nearly impossible.

 

@ Jasmine,

Have you considered TGE as a game engine?

http://www.garagegames.com/products/tge

In any case I'm sure there's plenty of users here with a lot of talent who'd be willing to contribute. Let us know more about your project!

 

i really liked the resource system to company of heroes unlike how most all rts games has some resource location right next to the base

 

What I've gathered from talking to people is that these are good qualities in rts:

-- 2 or 3 resources are optimal

-- 3 races is best. 4 is generally ok too, but it's harder to balance.

-- Approximately 15 units per race is optimal. 15 units can be assigned the following roles:

1x Worker
2x Melee
2x Ranged
2x Support (possibly provides auras, specific anti air, multiple attacks, metamorphosis, possible casting)
2x Casters (crowd control, buffing, debuffing, healing, cursing, AOE, mind-control)
1x Long Ranged Siege
1x Secondary Siege (either air based, or short ranged)
2x Air Assault
1x Air Support (specific anti air, or transport)
1x Stealth (stealth based combat unit, or a dedicated spy)

-- While specific class roles like these are possible, it can be worth mixing up the roles a bit to create more interesting units. But it is generally good to keep the above in mind so that all roles are adequately covered.

 

I assume you have a word document or something similar to that with your ideas in it? If you post that here, -attachment- people can add their own things and post the document again, constantly updating it untill you have enough to start programming.

 

I don't have a word document because my ideas for content are not that well defined. I'm thinking that this thread being updated with our thoughts will be adequate, until we have something more concrete to put in a word doc.

My motivation here is because I find rts to be a very interesting game from a design point of view. And this design process is almost an art and a game in itself, anticipating the various unit interactions and how the races work in themselves and play against each other.

And from a programming point of view, with the exception of mmo games, I think this is one of the more complicated games to produce. There is a great deal of algorithmic complexity hidden beneath the simple cosmetic surface, and that is just something I'd love to get my head around. As I said yesterday, I've already gotten quite deep into that algorithmic part.


Anyway, another idea I had, but unrelated to the above races/theme, is to have a race which is like a variety show of various beings and craft inspired from sci-fi films... such as the aliens like those in the film of thename, predator-like creatures, and hovering ships reminiscent of those in war of the worlds.

 

I think you mean Independance Day. War of the Worlds had tripods, no floating stuff.

So about the races:
- one sci-fi alien race, maybe the one that invades the planet where the story takes place?
- one enlighted race with some sort of god-like powers, perhaps the guardians of the planet in the story?
- one race that blends in with nature, perhaps a civilization that is almost lost, and now is threatened to be assimilated by the sci-fi race?

I love coming up with lore.
What do you think?

 

floating stuff
http://www.diet-smith.ca/war_worlds_pal_8_x.jpg

So hi-tech humans is replaced with hi-tech aliens. okay that's good. No need to have two tech races. Cybernetic and mechanoid armies also seem more apt for alien beings than humanity.

The tribal race blended with nature is good. So perhaps this race represents the remnants of humanity, struggling for survival after an environmental disaster, who have 'sunk' into nature and have developed this ritualized neo-ancient civilization. I like that

enlightened race stays... planetary guardians are alright I guess. Perhaps this is an identity which they've newly assigned themselves. I had imagined my goth race as people who became disaffected, turning their back on the failing human social structures and walked off into the forests... and somehow became enlightened/magically gifted. That does fit very well with an acquired sense of righteousness, to appoint themselves as world guardians. I like that

This is good Aurora, thanks.

I do still have concerns how a magical race provides melee and mechanical units (some kind of ninjas, and maybe they can create golems?)

And how does a nature based race provide decent air units. Advanced alien space ship with death ray vs flock of pigeons... I don't think so. :laugh: We'll need to resolve that.