Roach Regeneration vs Psi Storm

Our friends at sc2pod.com have calculated the exact damage stats when comparing the Roach regen rate vs Psi Storm:

Using some simple math we can with that information figure out exactly how much damage a Psi Storm does! If you just want the result you can skip this codebox.

Code:

The Roach has 90 hp and regenerates 15hp/s, probably with a better resolution than that (like 1.5hp/100ms) so our calculation should be fairly accurate. Let's assume the Psi Storm does damage once a second over 4 seconds. Karune told us that after a Psi Storm the roach is at approximately 50%, I'd say that means 36-54 hp left. I'm not saying the Psi Storm does random damage, just that the hp left is somewhere between 40%-60% but we can't be sure since Karune said approximately 50%.

Let's go with the low hp first, if the roach didn't regenerate at all it would have taken (90-36)/4 = 13,5 dmg/s. But since it regenerates 15hp/s the Psi Storm damage is 13,5+15 = 28,5 dmg/s.
28,5*4 = 114 total damage.
Same calculation with the other estimate: (((90-54)/4)+15)*4 = 96 total damage.

So a Psi storm does somewhere between 96-114 Total damage. That is awfully close to the 112 total damage of the original Psi Storm in SC1. With 112 total damage the roach would have 38hp left (42%). Some people have been concerned that the Psi Storm would be nerfed in SC2 since it's much easier to cast, we can't know for sure if that's the case, but Karune's info doesn't rule out an unmodified Psi Storm at least.

As a footnote, with 112dmg Psi Storm the upgrade for the Roach would add about 60% regeneration, bringing the total to 24hp/s. That would let the roach regenerate from zero to full health in under 4 seconds. That's quite a bit of regen!

Source: http://sc2pod.com/news/

 

I think this is great. Psi Storms in PvZ was the norm in SC1, and almost every Zerg unit was extremely vulnerable to them. Kinda like how Siege Tanks were absolutely needed in TvP. Roaches and Immortals fix these problems as they force the opponent to get different units instead.

EDIT* Btw, that Roach in the pic looks a lot better than the current model. I like how this version has smaller scythes and a bigger body.

 

The smaller blades also make sense since its ranged in the current build. But I think it looks to bulky and an inability to run fast, thats what I'd imagine a Lurker to look like.

 

I think this is a great addition to the zerg aresenal. I also hope there is a similiar solution with terran so infaltry will not be useless vs toss with storm. Maybe the Nomad's Defensive Matrix with infaltry could slow down the power of the storm, but then again, without the troops healing they will die quickly any way.

 

The storm is still doing batches of damage instead of continuously harming everything under it... that's a bit disappointing.

Also I think that in its current state the roach is overpowered. The current attributes just beg for players to burrow>unburrow and just push back literally any resistence that early in the game. I would like to see the unit become a melee one with a halved regen rate.

@ Kacher: Terran infantry will not get any protection whatsoever against storm because storm is meant to counter masses of weak units. To counter storm, you'll just have to give infantry a miss.

 

If it becomes a melee unit it essentially becomes a cross between a Zealot and Zergling which isn't unique and kinda messed up.
Also note that burrow is a tier 2 upgrade meaning players will have tanks and stuff so it isn't like theres no counters, theres actually many.
A few Roaches are not gonna get close to some sieged tanks as that instant large damage output can one shot them.
If they returned Colossus back to normal they'd be a good counter, but for now its Stalkers.

 

Burrow is tier 2? That's news to me.

The reason a melee roach would make more sense is that currently the roach is an early hydralisk with an increased regeneration rate. If it became melee it'd be more unique and also wouldn't allow (if burrow isn't available) extreme dancing to lose focus fire and regenerate rapidly. It wouldn't be just a cross between a zealot and a zergling because the roach is much bigger, has different armour type and so has different counters.

 

Hydralisk is faster and delivers a much higher damage output. If you wanna compare the Roach and Hydralisk the Roach is the defensive aspect and the Hydralisk is the offensive aspect, but I remember people were saying the Roach is a Hydralisk but it can't attack air as far as I'm concerned.

 

Roach vs Hydra

I agree with Psionicz and think there is enough difference between the roach and hydra to make them unique. Also, I think if the roach was melee it would have too many weakness as all melee aoe would absolutely own them. This way you can try to keep them away form archons and similiar splash melee units.

 

well ive really got no problem with this style of Q&A since it lets the community get a chance to answer some of their questions..

and regarding about the roach vs. psi storm, im quite surprised that roaches are quite good defensively since the zerg has really been violated for 10years by the psionic storm and just by the sound of it hurting your mass zerg units makes you wanna cry... T_T lol

i like the way that they differed the roach from the hydralisk in terms of offense and defense but the thing im concerned with is when a fully upgraded roach is hit by a storm its remaining pts will be 80%... 80%!!!!!! thats too damn big leftover for something so small.... and by the looks of it the storms damage wasnt that much modified so my question goes for the H.templars psi storm....

Since you said that the psionic storms damage is aquired through an interval rate, does that mean that if i cast two psionic storm in an altered time pattern would it cause more damage?? or will it just show same results??

Oh and by the way id like to thank you guys for nice find with the pic.. it really looks like an evolved roach fit for zerg...
too bad the terrans irradiate was removed.. i wish it could at least been an alternate ghost missile like bio-chemical gas weapon that is more lethal against organic creatures... ^_^

 

Damn, they beat me to it!

@ kuvasz. The Roach is fine as a ranged unit. If you take it out then Zerg don't have any range until Tier 2, which would be a pretty severe handicap. It doesn't really overlap with the Hydralisk, the only thing they have in common is that they're both ranged, and that the Roach fills the StarCraft1 Hydralisk's spot, which doesn't make it a Hydralisk. The Roach doesn't have massive range, so is probably out ranged by most of the other ranged units out there, and if its regeneration rate is halved, it will loose its speciality and won't be as effective. The Zerg need a unit like this. It's not tough and can be taken out extremely quickly, but in long battles, with damage over time abilities and with insufficient attack power, its there to stay.

@ freedom23. The Ghost already has Snipe which deals significant damage against most Zerg units, so there's no need for a biochemical gas weapon.

 

@Freedom, it would deal double the damage of course if there were two Psi Storms over the Roach and that would kill it easily
Also upgraded or not it would be the same, as armor doesn't hinder Psi Storm.

 

tnx psionix.. that cleared it up a bit.. and i also dont like the "quoting thing" aside from being messy, it also adds a lil bit of disrespectful manner in a way that you tend to insult someones misunderstanding at one thing.. so i also dont quote but rather use the "@" symbol which is more convenient since what you're answering will be easily identified by the one who you intended it to be read.....

well now at least i have an idea on how to be a roach buster....

 

Roach is a beautiful unit, I love how its become very anti-protoss. It will be extremly useful to fast tech to Roaches.

 

@ItzaHexGor well of course the terran doesnt need the biochemical gas missile alternative for them since the nuke itself is already very devastating but what im worried is that i think that the new ghost has too many skill... even more than a high templar which should be more talented since it is in a different level of "Psionic Power" but still wouldnt u consider the idea of the irradiation virus dispersed in a missile (its quite advantageous since it wouldnt stop from the impact but rather spread the virus through nearby organic units/buildings if so...) rather than the Drop pods which i think is lame since a ghost is a spec-op unit and not the commander type which designates assault...

so the ghost has nuke,droppods,snipe,EMP??,cloak?? im not sure but please can u also clarify these.. and also have you got any info on the upgrades that it will learn like extra range like before....

 

This is the wrong thread for Ghost info, search it on the Terran thread.

 

Nice find. A shame psychic storm still seems to do enough damage to kill shielded marines with a medi dropship above em >>

 

Now to post something on topic. I mentioned earlier that I think the roach is overpowered. It seems starfeeder agrees with me. Just think about it. The roach has 90 hitpoints, moderate range and damage - it can't cost much, even more so because it's the Zerg we're talking about. If it doesn't cost much, it can be spammed. Just what do you plan on doing with 12+ instahealing monsters at tier 1? Besides sending GG to your opponent.

I understand Blizzard is experiementing because, for one, they haven't got a clue what they want to do, and secondly, they can do it without much effort. But even the idea of such a rate of healing is ludicrous

 

[On topic time! @ kuvasz. I don't believe that the Roach is that overpowered. Siege Tanks can take them out in a single shot, focused fire tears them to shreds and they're unable to defend themselves against all Air-to-Ground attackers. I'm not sure if this takes the upgraded regeneration rate into account, but Blizzard has said that with one Stalker versus one Roach, the Roach wins hands down, but with five Stalkers versus five Roaches, the Stalkers win hands down. The reason is that the regeneration rate is only an issue if they're around long enough for it to take effect. If the five Stalkers can take one out instantly, then the Roach has no time to regenerate. With no time to regenerate the regeneration factor goes out the window meaning that they aren't overpowered. They're not because although they have high regeneration, they have extremely low health so don't have as long to make use of their heightened regeneration.

 

Oh and as for your siege tank argument, you don't have any if the Zerg player goes roach rushing. As for stalkers, well I highly doubt they'll one-shot roaches, so even if fire is focused on them, roaches can be danced. Needless to say, dancing + insane regen = win.