Roach Cheese

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by Moop, Oct 31, 2010.

Roach Cheese

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by Moop, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Moop

    Moop New Member

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    How does I counter it? Gateway units blow vs roaches and immortals take way too long to get out
     

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  2. Ste

    Ste New Member

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    immortals.

    get them faster.
    FASTER

    FASSSSTER!!


    Also get charge.

    FASTER!!

    Edit: you only had 2 zealots when he attacked, by that time you should of had more.

    Just improve how early you make gates and sqeeze untis out faster.

    You did not make a narrow enough choke point, otherwise with 1-2 stalkers behind those 2 zealots at choke, a force field might have greatly helped until you got more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  3. Algernon

    Algernon New Member

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    Stalkers do fine against Roaches if you have enough. Jut Warp Gate them out en masse while you get your Immortal numbers up. Roaches aren't that hard to counter. Especially if you go air.
     
  4. Moop

    Moop New Member

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    Define enough? From my testing, cost for cost, Roaches counter stalkers hard. As in like 6 roaches v 4 stalkers leads to 4 roaches walking away...and the stalkers cost 50 minerals and 50 more gas.

    It took until they were even numbers for the stalkers to win. At that point, you're sinking 300 more minerals and 150 more gas into your army...just to come out slightly ahead.

    I'm not sure how I could have had 6 stalkers out and waiting for when he rushed me. I'm aware that my macro is craptacular but I think that getting 6 stalkers is stretching it.

    Edit: Apparently I can fend off 7 roaches with 4 stalkers and a sentry if he's coming up my ramp and I can force field the bottom in time. I can try, but I still think that 4 stalkers and a sentry is a little much that early o_O
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  5. Algernon

    Algernon New Member

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    Having a few zealots will help you a lot. I've never really had a problem with countering Roaches; upgraded Zeals and Stalkers will make quick work of them. Immortals aren't that cost effective until later in the game.
     
  6. Ste

    Ste New Member

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    By the time they get to my base with 5-8 roaches I have 2 zealots, 1 sent, 2-3 stalkers and 1-2 imorts.

    I think ya just need to get faster.

    Using the sent to force field your ramp really helps get 1-2 imorts out if u charge them.
     
  7. ouk

    ouk New Member

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    Get 3 canons and 1 gateway at your enterance asap and them tech up. Go imortals and stalkers with blink.
     
  8. ouk

    ouk New Member

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    i think protoss is improperly balanced in starcraft 2.
     
  9. Stirlitz

    Stirlitz Member

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    The 7 roaches are at your door by the 5 minute mark(game time, even less in real time) given a short enough distance. How fast can you make immortals or have enough zealots/stalkers?

    That's not a roach rush that's a normal roach push, kinda late too. Unless you have that much army when the game timer hits 5 minutes.
     
  10. Andromidius

    Andromidius New Member

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    Building a pair of Cannons at your ramp can help repell a Roach Rush. It'll slow your tech a little, but it means you can grab Level 1 Weapons and secure your natural more easily.
     
  11. Ste

    Ste New Member

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    Honestly, just get faster, if your scouting you should see early roaches, then you know to push out as many stalkers asap. and start immorts. To defend this you need to cut probe production. (Still need 1-2 zealots at choke on hold to prevent lings from running in)

    Its about adaptation, the only reason they are getting that many roaches that fast is they have made less workers, to compensate you also have to make less workers during this time to sqeeze units out faster.

    The only time I get owned with early roaches is if they also bring some workers and a queen along.

    And i think your still discounting the use of force field, with 1-2 early sents you can delay for a good amount of time, when they break in, the force fields buy you time to squeeze more units out and maybe even an imort or 2.

    yes this is hard, all in under 5 minutes, but it just takes dedication and practice.

    I don't like making cannons early game as protoss because its too easy for them to see that and change strats very quickly.

    The only time and place I make cannons is mid to late game at tech buildings or expansion mineral lines.

    But if this is gold and below, cannons may be a good idea at entrance early game. Not so much in plat and diamond.. :/
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  12. Lewan

    Lewan New Member

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    1 or 2 sentries to use force field to separate the roaches + guardian sheild. Then use stalkers and leg-zlots to clean them up. If that doesn't work throw down a cannon or 2.

    If its a little bit later roach aggression then immortals!
     
  13. Stirlitz

    Stirlitz Member

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    The usual protoss army by the 5 min mark consists of 1-2 stalkers, or 1 zealot 1 stalker, 1 zealot 1 sentry or something like that. Just pick any random progamer replay and pause at the 5min mark and see what they have, if they haven't FEd of course. If you get 7RR you can have those roaches+1 queen+workers up your ramp by the 5:20 mark if the zerg goes for the all-in variant. If it fails, you win, but chances are deffinitely not on your side...

    Even cutting worker production will not help that much since you need gas-heavy units as protoss to deal with roach rush, since zealots are not exactly good against them, so you'll need both minerals to build gateways/units and gas for stalkers/1sentry... I've never been 7RRed yet, but I've seen the build and haven't thought of a reliable way to deal with it yet..
     
  14. butterbattle

    butterbattle New Member

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    I didn't watch the video. Did you scout?

    If he's going for a really early roach rush, just make some cannons or more units.

    Edit: I just watched a video on the all-in variant and that looks much more difficult to deal with. I suppose you can always force field with a sentry, but that only lasts for so long. The timing on it is just perfectly wrong for protoss to deal with.

    Does anyone have a video of someone fighting off this particular kind of roach rush?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  15. TastyTreat

    TastyTreat New Member

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    Cannons wont save you. You have 2 choices if they are roach rushing. First option 2 gate proxy. Second option Gate/Cyber wall at choke with a fast sentry. 2 Sentries will pretty much render the push useless and you can get 2 out at the 5 minute mark.

    A 3rd less effective option is a cannon contain.

    Roach opening is becoming more popular vs protoss since its highly effective. I find the most effective way to stop it is 1gate/cyber.