Reason why zerg is UP.

Well it's really simple, blizzard screwed with the design of zerg economy, buildings and unit morphing cost more for zerg. Let me illustrate this:

The cost of lair is:
1. Worker that built the lair (50)
2.. Lair itself (300)
3. Replacement worker, to replace the used worker (50)

So all this adds up to 400 minerals, which is the same amount as terran has to spend for its orbital command, blizzard however says that they are the same price!

Same is true with the cost of banelings/brood lords for example, the cost for baneling is:
1. Zergling
2. Cost to morph zergling into baneling.
3. Cost of replacement zergling to replace the lost zergling.

So cost of Baneling is imbalanced too compared to other race's units.

Hopefully blizzard fixes this soon, and makes the morphed units and buildings cost the same for zerg as for terrain and protoss. >=\

 

Cost of an archon:
1) 2 HT
2) Cost of replacement 2 HT for the lost 2 HT.

thats 200min and 600 gas FOR ONE ARCHON =OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

there are probably several more reasons that zerg may be UP, but your list doesnt convince me

 

You don't need to replace a zergling or the worker that made the baneling/lair... That shouldnt have to do with the equation.

Like, I don't consider a marauder to cost 150 minerals because the marine I could have made... or the marine I'll need to make? It just doesn't make sense. A baneling costs the zergling cost (25 minerals) and the baneling cost (not aware of it, tbh). Replacement zergling has nothing to do with it.

Not to say you're wrong about Zerg being underpowered, or that your reasons are wrong, but the replacement worker, or replacement corrupter, shouldn't have anything to do with it. I think I can show you why.

Let's say hypothetically hellions are an upgrade from... raptors (made up unit). A raptor costs 50 minerals, and the hellion upgrade costs 50 minerals. Thus a hellion would cost 100 minerals, 50 for the original raptor, and 50 to upgrade it to a hellion. No one would consider a hellion to cost 150 minerals for the replacement raptor... that other raptor has nothing to do with this particular hellion

 

step 1 shouldn't be there if you also have step 3.


if you follow the first three steps you end with a drone more than you started with, if you follow the baneling steps, you end with more zerglings than you started with.

 

Please don't quote more than you type. Read the forum rules before posting!

The replacement worker should be considered. Obviously it costs 1 worker to build the lair, and then a other one to replace the worker...

 

Okay, I think you are either horrible at math, or a troll.



if you paid for one at the beginning, you don't need to replace it.

 

No, consider this:

You have 1 worker
You build hatchery; the cost of the hatchery is 300 minerals PLUS the worker (worth 50)
You have 0 workers and thus far have spent 350 minerals
You replace the worker, this costs 50.

400 spent...

 

He has a point there, terran don't lose an scv when building a supply depot. So, if zerg wants same amount of workers, he needs to replace, or suffer economically.

 

and to replace... you lose a larva!

 

Good moses, you're looking at it the wrong way. It's a little late to get all philosophical like some of these newer players are doing and challenge the very nature of the Zerg race.

What are you suggesting, that the Zerg Drone not be sacrificed?

You say Blizzard claimed it costs the same to build a Hatchery as a Command Center (at least try to get the names of the buildings right...?) and it does. It costs 400 minerals (plus the time lost mining if you want to get technical) for a Terran to build a Command Center.

And it costs 400 minerals for a Zerg to build a Hatchery and replace all his units. But his building also isn't nearly as vulnerable as the Command Center because his unit isn't vulnerable while building it. If you really want to get picky the Protoss have it best, it doesn't cost them a worker and the worker isn't pre-occupied.

But arguing cost vs. system isn't really applicable at this point. It's widely accepted that the building mechanics, at the very least, are balanced in StarCraft 2. The biggest concern I have is the SCV's low HP which makes it far weaker than the Drone or Probe.

 

no


you start with 0 workers
you build 1 - which costs 50 minerals
you build a hatchery - which costs 300 minerals.


and than you have as many workers as you started with, plus a hatchery, for 350 minerals.


you can also


start with 1 worker
build a hatchery - 300 minerals
replace worker - 50 minerals


same story.

 

And here I was thinking AtlasMeCH was the worst we had. This guy is either much worse, or just a troll.

 

I think its a genuine concern...I disagree that Zerg is several underpowered because their worker is consumed, but nonethless, any building they make consumes a worked, which is a weakness.

However, you don't need to pump out 7 spawning pools to get 7 zerglings pumping at the same time, just one and using all your larave.

Balanced

 

Start with 1 worker (it is worth 50 - you lose 50 if you lose the worker!)
Build hatchery - 300 minerals plus the 1 lost worker.
Replace the worker - 50 minerals.

It equals 400

Other point:

Terran starts with 1 worker
Terran build OC (400 minerals)

Zerg is supposed to be cheaper by 50.

 

Command Center - 400 minerals
Orbital command - 150 minerals
Replace Command Center - 400 minerals

ORBITAL COMMAND IS 950 MINERALS OMG!!!!!

You fail at logic.

 

How so?

That IS how much it costed to you to make it, everything being equal!

 

You don't use replacement costs if you already factored in the cost of the original!


That's like saying

I need a bike.
So I buy parts for 80 dollars to put one together
I bring the parts to the local bikesmith, who puts em together for 20 dollars
And then I replace the parts.


I call troll.

 

New on this forum, old on others, it doesn't sound like he's trolling, just sound like he's trying to get into a legitimate debate about Zerg units and costs....

 

Using absolutely nonsensical arguments... He could just be bad at math though.

If you count the cost of the original unit, you count the cost needed to replace him.

If you want a hatchery, than you sacrifice a drone to build it. building it costs 300 minerals, replacing the sacrificed drone costs 50 minerals. 350 minerals total, which is cheaper than the other races.



let me say it otherwise

before you begin, you have 0 drones and 1 hatchery.
On step 1, you build a drone, costing 50 minerals. you now have 0 drones and 1 hatchery, with total expenses 50
on step 2, you build a hatchery, costing 300 minerals. you now have 0 drones and 2 hatcheries, with total expenses 350. On this step, you have a single hatchery more than you started with, with no losses besides the 350 minerals.

If you would take step 3 however, you pay 50 minerals for an additional drone. But if you do so, you end with both a drone and a hatchery more than you started with. You are done on step 2.

 

I agree, his math is off. If I want to build a hatchery from scratch, I build a drone (50) then build a hatchery (300). Or, alternatively, if I want to build a hatchery using an existing drone, I build a hatchery (300) then a drone to replace (50). The OP is double-counting the drone.