You know how everyone contrasts WC and SC with the latter being all about precision. It's why people rightfully complain about corruption and the VR damage bonus against massive. Well I created this thread to discuss why there's still a huge randomness factor in this game. Notice how the attack rate of pretty much all the units (haven't checked but I'm assuming) has a certain jitter. They would attack every n seconds but n would have a different value for each attack within a certain band. This makes tower control in ZvZ a coin toss, and results in marked differences (potentially deciding the outcome of a battle) in small-scale, micro-intensive battles. Why is that? SC should be about static numbers and player skills. I don't have any ideas, not even far-fetched ones...
Order two tanks to attack rocks and you'll see. Or two lings to attack each other... the outcome will be random.
Shouldn't 2 lings kill each other perfectly every time? At least if the game works as it is presented by Blizzard.
I disagree with that randomness factor.. If you get 2 zerglings to attack each other starting at exactly the same time, sure one will survive, but it isn't random - it's because of very small difference in pathing. In order to test this you can queue an attack like that then save the game and replay it a few times.. the same result will always come out.
lolwat Of course the replay will have the same values so the outcome will be the same in the replay. I was saying if you did a couple of tests in-game each one would end randomly. The randomness is in the attack speed of the given attack cycle. And pathfinding has nothing to do with attacking. Just do the rock test and see that the tanks will sometimes attack at exactly the same moment but the following attack will be lagging behind on one of them. The same thing with lings - they meet at exactly the same time and they start attacking at exactly the same moment - but the one with the lower (or more lucky) weapon speed jitter will win. This is quite noticeable on ultras as well. I find it odd that this isn't apparent to everyone already.
I don't mean to be rude, but I think your wrong, there is no randomness factor, you might be talking about how siege tanks land their shots in different places? This is just graphical.
No, I was referring to the graphics on the model, which is directly related to the timing of the attack. I know the sheer size of the rocks makes the attack land in different places, but I'm talking about the origing of the attack animation, which is directly related to the timing.
I haven't noticed that, but I think that it might be due to lag or something, tbh... I think that you can test though if it's true with the editor. Take 2 lings, edit their hp to something like 1k and have them attack each other. If the randomness in attack speed is true then after 3-4 tests you're gonna have at least one where the alive ling has more than 5 hp...
I just read through the comments again and ... herp derp how can you not notice? Unless you're all trolling me. Last attempt: And it's not just the animation... I was following how the life of the rocks was reduced and the change in attack time clearly showed (obviously, because the animation is tied to how damage is dealt...). It's not just the tank but that's where it's most noticeable because of the animation. I'm suspecting this to be present in all units.
Have you posted about this on the official forums yet? I'm curious what Blizzard would have to say about this.
yeah i know this kind of thing.... i've tried many times where i went to harrass my opponent with a drone and i ended up in a fight between my drone and his scv 1 on 1 .. and the result is just random =.=
This isn't new information. You can find it in the map editor, as long as you spend a lot of time combing through the weapons and stats sections for units.
Wow. Nice find Kuvasz. Its always been standard to have the same attack rates in Starcraft. Hopefully something that gets taken into consideration when the new patch come out. Remember Broodwar? when your tanks were all lined in the same row they would all attack constantly at the same rate. In fact it became a strategy to stagger the formation of your tanks a little so the blasts could lay down more overall area damage. It seems with this change its disturbed some people; however, there is a statement made about the facts of life. If YOU were in an actual fight in real life, presumably one of you would walk away no? Even with 2 even matched fights 1 person will walk away. Why? Its exactly what Kuvasz said, luck factor. Same reason you would win a coin toss.
