PvZ defending baneling bust/zergling rush

How do you defend this?

I'm talking about the zerg rushing to have about 12 speedlings and 6 banes to get into my base and completely wreck my econ. It seems like an all-in build for zerg, but if I can't quite defend it, it doesnt matter. Even if I have a sentry up to FF the ramp and 2 stalkers and a couple zealots, it doesnt seem like enough. He'll wait til the FF is down then run the banes up, kill my zealots and then wreck my stalkers.. By the time I can get more zealots warped it, its GG.

WTF? lol. It's frustrating.

 

What I like to do is block my choke with a pylon and a Warpgate, leaving only a small gap where only one or two zealots fit. That way, when the Zerg attacks only a handful of zerglings can actually attack at a time.

As for the sentry, try to use the force fields just as the zerglings/banelings climb up the ramp, splitting them. Those who get to your units are stuck and will die to your ranged units (stalkers / sentry) and are not enough to actually break in. The rest of the army will either have to wait for more troops and try again (but by then you should be in the clear) or retreat.

Good luck!

 

Are you blocking your ramp in a way that the zerglings - banelings have to go through some units to break through? If I do have a couple of stalkers I tend to leave them in front to take the beating on the banelings. Seems to absorb more of the damage. FF and a couple stalkers should be able to snipe a couple of the banelings. And if that doesn't work you can at least use that time on FF to build more zealots.

 

mmm i zerg love doing this

Seriously it's very fun to wreck a toss' econ this early.. i find pylons easiest to break thru and gate/ cyber/forge much harder.. so don't wall with pylon if you can help it. also zealots blocking choke absorb heaps of the dmg of bannlings and yeah FF to split the packs. Cannons help with range dps early too.

 

1) Try to trap some units when you use FF, so you can pick some off while he is waiting for it to wear off. The more banelings you can trap the better, and if they take out a pylon just start a new one right away.

2) A sentry makes a better block than a zealot. Zealots fall too fast to banelings, and if you've gone for sentries/stalkers then all he really wants to be able to do is flood those lings in.

3) Be prepared to immediately move a new stalker in the way.

 

Also, as mentioned earlier, don't block a choke with pylon, banelings would bust that too easily. Put pylon a little in the back, so it would power up your entrance, and block with gate / core.

 

All good advice! I normally wall off vs zerg, however it's usually pylon, gate, then I back up (for power supply) with another pylon in case I lose it. I suppose that Gate/forge or gate/core would be better. Also, I didnt really think about letting the stalkers take the damage after the FF wears off. I normally go with a somewhat zealot intensive build start with a few sentries and stalkers for support, so losing 1 stalker wouldnt really be a huge deal.

Any thoughts on cannons?

 

In my opinion ( me being a zerg player) I feel that cannons are slightly better than the pylons to use as a wall, but not to much better. If im trying to baneling bust the door down, I go for pylons and cannons. However, IF there are tons of cannons (4 or 5) I feel less certain about it and switch strats. If you have a couple of cannons (2) plus some stalkers behind the Forge/Gate/Core wall off, I personally would NOT continue with Banelings because I would lose many banelings and not have enough to help with the zealots/stalkers.

 

Sentries and stalkers behind buildings own.

 

If there are tons of cannons, there are a lot less units. The zerg player will bust and just run past the cannons.

A few cannons in the back can be helpful for sniping things, but I'm not sure if it is a wise investment or not. I sort of eschew that kind of static defense unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

I think it's a personal preference, i rarely use cannons, but it's viable to build forge for upgrades and make cannons according to the game flow: 1 or 2 cannons in your choke if he applies a lot of pressure, cannons at your mineral line if he goes for muta harrass (even blink stalkers won't be enough if you don't want to completly lose map control).

 

yeah, since zealots > zerglings and banelings > zealots.

Let your stalker eat all of the banelings hit. Since it wouldn't be as important as your zealots anyways in that fight.

Cannons I'm a bit iffy about, maybe 1 would do good but build a forge for upgrades and not for defensive purposes. It's just if you wall off and make 4-5 cannons. Any smart zerg player is going to take advantage of that, switch to expansion - tech.

 

Any time i see a Zerg player i do wall up with a gateway and forge. Then i'll put a 2 cannons behind the forge and use my zealots to block whats left of the entry. After that i make as many stalkers as i can till i get an idea as to what the other player is doing from my scouts.

 

For early game I also have some problems with banelings generally. I don't meet many zerg players that play banelings so that's why I'm mostly afraid of them. For late game blink stalkers seem quite awsome to me: blink 1 of them inside the baneling pack and waste them.

As for walling off here's a few things to know:
Pylons: 2x2 grid 400 total hp+shields 100 mineral cost 6 banelings to bust
Cannons: 2x2 grid, 300 total hp value, 100 mineral cost 5 banelings to bust
Gateways: 3x3 grid, 1000 total hp value, 150 mineral cost, 13 banelings to bust.

A cannon is only useful for defense and once the pressure is off it's just wasted minerals(asside from the psychological "don't attack that cannon-guarded area" factor on your enemy). A pylon's good so long as you need the psi, while the gateway can be used throughout the game to produce units so it's kinda more useful as a building to have in general. I'd say the best way would be to wall off with gateways(and whatever other tech structures you might need that are cheap to make, like a forge).

I'll do some testing on a unit test map and build stuff and check which is the most efficient way to block variable size of ramps against baneling busts though I do believe that the gateway thingie will seem best.

Btw, that's all just theoretical and if you spend all your money building walls and not units and probes you'll lose. But I'm also curious if anyone's got any good ideas for walling off against baneling busts as protoss since it's something that I'm afraid off, even without having much experience against it.

Playing as terran I saw a very cool trick to walling off a ling bust by repositioning a couple of rax and building 2 bunkers behind the depot wall which I really loved. Will find the video somewhere and link it when I do.

 

Good numbers and stuff, but about that stalker blinking into the bane ling pack and blowing them up? That's a bit ridiculous.

 

Why? It's quite an awsome way to sacrifice a stalker. It can blow up to 9 banelings.... What's wrong with sacrificing a 125m50g unit for a 450m225g economic damage and prevent that force from doing more damage to you like busting a wall or killing off lots of zealots?

Boxer dropped a whole thor on top of a baneling group to bust them why not use blink as a toss for the same effect?

 

I use the baneling/speeling strat fairly often and I have to say with toss usually the most trouble I run into is if they can see the attack comming (hint hint, scout more)

This may sound stupid but if you run your zealots away from the little "gap" that your blocking they wont get chewed up by the blings and u can position your stalkers fora bit of scoot'n'shoot to try snipe a couple. best case scenario forcing the blings to attack your stalkers. then whatever zealots you have you can use to defend against the lings (generally I'll see the zealots positioned near their mineral line cause they cant catch speedlings ),

If you have stalkers left after eating/killing the blings you can use them to help defend against the speedlings..... Of course if you can squeeze out a sentry or 2 for FF's to block your ramp you'll do better.

Anways, might not be that helpful but thats my 2 cents, I've never even played toss so this is purely a zerg pov.

Hope this helps ^_^

 

Because a stalker wouldn't cause that much damage that quick? And only a scrub zerg would press x to that stalker or auto attack banelings to units. Thors are different story though.

 

What do you mean by causing that much damage that quick? The stalker blinks inside the banelings or in front of them as they attack and tanks them. Banelings autoattack units anyway. The same way the stalker does damage the thor did too only it has the potential of causing up to 2+ times the damage due to the higher health pool. You don't have to press X for an unborrowed baneling to attack a target that's close to you, really.
What's different using a medvac to drop a thor on them?

 

Ok the stalker drop thing, it would work on low level play, but NO ZERG at high platinum or diamond auto attack their banelings. Exactly because of that reason. Thors do immense amount of damage to light units. And being mech armored and massive, banelings do **** damage to them. I'm just going to have that roach - hydra kill it anyways. Banelings are like rarely used when I play PVZ anyways, and shouldn't be used at all except baneling drops on mineral lines.