PvT critique request + replay

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Strategy Discussion' started by Galaxy.ein, Dec 23, 2010.

PvT critique request + replay

  1. Galaxy.ein

    Galaxy.ein New Member

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    Overview:
    This is a game I lost in a PvT. The opponent was an 1800 diamond terran. And I personally haven't laddered much, but I have a pretty high record against 1600~1800 diamond players in general...so I'd say I'm somewhere around there also.

    My concerns:
    I'd like to critique my macro play, micro play, and build order.

    My own critique:
    I think I made two major errors in micro play.
    1) After the first battle I won I performed a counter-attack on the T planetary fortress. I let my gateway units die and performed a retreat with heavy losses. Prior to this battle I felt "good," but afterwords I felt "meh."
    2) My last major attack on the T player consisted of some forces and 5 colossus. It seemed like it would be a winning battle to me, but I ended up losing pretty badly. In the replay I saw that my 5 colossus lagged behind my army forces, and my army died before the colossus really started to attack anything. Do you think that battle could have been a victory? Prior to this battle I felt, "Eh?" After I felt, "...damn."

    In macro play I see one moderate error...
    1) I got my third base later than I could have. I don't think it's the primary reason I lost the game, but it was a little delayed. Also I didn't get it at the gold.

    And in my build order I didn't feel like there were any weaknesses. I reacted to what I saw my opponent had, took my expansion at a reasonable time, and amassed an army that seemed logical and sufficient.

    About my strategy:
    The idea behind my build is to utilize the strength of zealot ground forces while protecting my colos with phoenixes. The main threat to colos is vikings, and that can be countered with stalkers or phoenixes. Zealots are generally stronger than stalkers, so I wanted to create a build that focused more on zealots.
    I figured a good opening build would be a moderate void ray rush to put some pressure on Terran and see what they might be doing, meanwhile I am able to open up tech paths faster. If they are going for cloaked banshees then I can add a robo and get obs fast. I should be fine against any sort of all-in since I'm getting lots of units, and if they are going for eco then I can put pressure on them while expanding myself and I should break even, if not win.
    From the void ray opening I go for an expansion as soon as I can and work on +1 upgrades ASAP for my colos, while teching colos ASAP. Before the first upgrade finishes I get a twilight council for charge and second attack upgrades. I also start pumping phoenixes to protect my colos from vikings (and tanks as well). Any extra gas gets put into stalkers and sentries, maybe templars down the road.
    And that's about it...work on expansions and more units/tech from there, and go for ~5 colos for my core army. The build resembles dual stargate phoenix builds, but with a whole different ordering. Since I don't get as many phoenixes I still need stalkers to help against lots of vikings.
    A couple added benefits...seems decent against raven plays (point defense drone) and tank plays (graviton beam).

    I'm hoping this could be a solid PvT strategy,and curious what people's thoughts about it are. If it's simply not strong enough or not coherent enough then let me know why and I might put my attention on other lines of thought.

    general idea:
    2-3 Gate Void Ray Pressure
    Expand / Robo / Forge
    Support Bay / +1 upgrades
    Colos / Colos Range
    Phoenixes / more gates
    Twilight Council / +2 upgrades
    Charge upgrade / thoughts about expanding and attacking

    So that's my big soggy post.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  2. Stirlitz

    Stirlitz Member

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    I'm interrested in watching this rep, as I'm generally better at analysing play than actually playing myself(which is natural since the time I spend analysing is more than the time I spend playing :p) and PvT is my favourite matchup, but I don't have sc2 installed on this PC(And can't run it anyway)... I will give you a little delayed opinion in a few days whenever I get a chance at it...
     
  3. Galaxy.ein

    Galaxy.ein New Member

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    I'm the same way. I study way more than I play. It's a good thing and a bad thing lol. There needs to be a balance there...and I think I lean a bit too heavily away from the practicing side of things. I theory crafted this build, and it's my first jab at laying down the foundations for a sound build. If this was still brood war I'd just be trying to figure out how I could beat progamers. That pretty much defined my brood war style play...how can a solid player beat progamers? And the answer is by using awesome pressure builds and rushes of course. However I don't feel like devoting myself to that in sc2 yet. Although I did sneak a win in on a 2000 zerg by doing a 2gate pressure into 4gate rush...lol. I panicked a bit. "So let's see...what do I need to do? Omfg ahhh!! 2gate!!!! 2gate!!!!!!!!!!"
     
  4. RushSecond

    RushSecond New Member

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    Three major points that went wrong for you
    1) You just let him take the gold. To prevent that, you should camp your units outside of his base, not yours. Sure there's marauders to prevent retreat if he pushes out, but since you had void rays the chance of a successful marauder attack was pretty slim. Sure he could slowly push out with siege tanks, but the main point is that you are slowing him down a lot. Make the terran struggle for every inch, because with siege tanks and fortresses, they won't ever give it back.
    2) In the meantime you should have taken your 3rd base.
    3) Yes, attacking the fortress was a huge mistake. If you had instead taken your 4th and even 5th bases, he wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. You could have also denied his mining at the gold with your colossi.
     
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  5. blackjedi

    blackjedi New Member

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    this was awesome - so far beyond my level but loved the replay. Your army was stronger than his most of the way - I think you could have snuck in behind his tanks earlier than you did to take out his expansions. That central point he was holding left two gaping holes. Thanks for posting.
     
  6. Galaxy.ein

    Galaxy.ein New Member

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    That's a helpful point RushSecond. I didn't have any map control that game, and that made things a lot easier for the Terran player. At the very least I could have applied pressure before the third went up with the planetary fortress.

    blackjedi, that's interesting that you point that out. I had the same thought during the game. And I could have very well harassed him. In fact it could have forced him to unsiege and give me a much better attack. I think I had my mind set on attacking his army and was trying to keep up with all the tasks around my base and timings that I just went for the attack. So I got a bit impatient there.
     
  7. almightyone

    almightyone New Member

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    I thought it was a pretty even game, First of all i thought you should have harrased alot more with your void rays, forcing him to make turrets and he would have played more defensive and probably wouldn't have expanded so fast.
    Second, next time you attack a Planetary fortress with collsus, don't attack with the rest of your army just have your army at "hold position" while your collsus destroy it for you without taking any damage, i'm not sure how many units he had but i think he only had a handfull of marines and the collsus you had could have easily taking them out, i think if you would have harrased more with your void rays, and been able to take that gold out you would have won......or if you would have hold out there in the end, backing away when you saw him coming, getting more units you would have won, becuase if you look at his bases, he has run out of minerals, he only had that one base mining from so you should have gotten more units gone back and taken the gold but that is easy to see afterwards hard to see ingame, but still i thought it was a pretty even game, mostly the little stuff that caused you the lose imo. Think you played very good, if your up for it we could play a match or 2, i think we are at the same level.