Hi, yesterday I got taken apart by a toss harassing me very early with phoenixes and their powerful ability, my question now is, what to do against toss in general, bc scouting is quite impossible, and either way, I have to decide to go heavy one tier or tech soon, and each move could be wrong... to counter these phoenixes, I would have had to produce hydras, but at the same time I needed a ground force to defend myself and to put on pressure against the toss which was, of course, rather weak on ground. But he defended his choke quite effectively, and finally trapped my zerglings which took my only opportunity to put on pressure, since all my drones were gone by then (phoenixes). Yes I built even more than 4 spore crawlers on good positions, but the phoenixes just kept harassing. Of course, it took my sweet time to build the ev. chamber and get these crawlers out. So, any advice? I felt I played quite well against that platinum toss, but I'd like to know anything to consider against toss, since I have most the problems against this race.
Get 2 queens and a spore crawler near workers. 2 Queens can fend off 3 pheonixes. By the time he sends in more, you have 2 options. This is what I've done. 1) Baneling bust because he probably has a pretty weak ground force. Also make additional spore crawlers (not too many, just maybe like 1 or 2 extra. An additional queen if you have your expo up already, or about to get one). 2) Get Hydra's (but don't rely on them too long, he might just tech to colossus. You're going to need a combination of other units). Keep your overlords close until you feel safe and scout with the lings for any of their expos. Remember, it also depends who has the better macro. Hey may just be faster than you.
He was definitely faster than me, he was in platinum league (me myself silver). His moves were all correct and with thought, I watched the replay. Really fine game, I actually enjooyed it even though I lost, because I had the feeling to still challenge him. Thanks for your tips, indeed he killed my lost ovs, I should have immediatly placed them nearby aa defenses. Still, I even created 2 spore crawlers in my base and expo (means 4), but that didn't stop him. I doubt that 2 queens would help alot, he can lift them into air and kill them. I made one mistake which cost me the game. I once nearly broke through his defenses, and had another group of lings at his door. But instead of morphing them to banelings (could have even afforded it), I sent them straight in. Stalkers killed them rather easily. If these had been banelings, the rest of my zerglings would have been able to rape the base. Meh.
Thats good, but queens do help. They force him to lift those up instead of your workers. And with the aid of a few spore crawlers, he wont kill those queens, esp when using transfusion. Just so you know And yeah, banelings are awesome. Don't be afraid, or forget to use them
How do you know he was platinum? If ur silver and u play someone whos slughtly favored it means hes gold? And favored : platinum. Basically 1 level above for slightly and 2 levels for favored? Or how does it work?
From the score screen, you can click on an opponent's name and then click 'View Profile'. You can see what league they are from there. And I don't think that's how the system works.
I play protoss and I lost to a good zerg player the other day. If he is building zealots/stalkers like I did, try to rush banalings in which will destroy the stalkers zealots easy. If he is building sentries, their shield will slow you down and allow the stalkers to destroy your banelings. If you can get rid of his early ground rush before he techs up to air then you can get him by continuing to beef up a ground attack while tech'ing up your air.
Yeah, those sentries are a real pain in the anus. I figured I'll try a roach/hydra build next time, focusing on the sentries.
get as many queens as you see fit, i get 3. and do a baneling bust with speed lings. Scouting should never b a problem for zerg. Suicide an overlord.
I keep losing to this build. Could some honest protoss post to which units/tactics he usually loses when going for this build vs zerg? I'm thinking about going mutas instead of hydras, after all, I need air control, and my overlords get killed otherwise. Or maybe some zerg could share their experiences successfully countering phoenixes? What I did so far was throwing down 3 spore crawlers, teching to mutas, checking the base if it's walled, usually it is. Usually, the hydras are too few in numbers and get picked up.
You should never have fewer hydralisks than phonixes. If you go spire, make the corrupter, since it actually counters phoenixes instead of mutas which get countered by them.
Spore Crawlers in base - Phoenix's cant touch buildings and cant touch units when the spore crawlers are there. Phoenix's are more expensive than Spore Crawlers - so you should be able to do this, unless they come in a huge pack before you detect them. But you should always have an evolution chamber up anyway, so that you can quickly build this. Basically cover so that wherever they are in your base, atleast 1 spore crawler will shoot - preferably 2 at most locations. They can pick a few drones or the Queen off, but they will suffer equally or worse in return. In addition to this, get Hydralisks - Phoenix's have no chance against an equal amount of Hydras (resource-wise) really. This means he'll have troubles both touching your base and your army - unless you have too few hydras or too few spore crawlers. mutas is a bad choice, anyone telling you different is stupid or inexperienced. Any GOOD Protoss player will micro their phoenix's to take very little damage from your Mutas - they will get WAY more attacks off. Realistically, despite the fact that he can theoritically, he will not be able to kill say 10 mutas with 2 pheonix's (except If he's reaaaaally good or lucky with the Micro ) - But Phoenix's beat Mutas in air-to-air for sure. EDIT: Upgrades are actually very good. Took me a good time to realize that upgrading units is extremely effective. You should have 1, or perhaps even 2, evolution chambers up. Against a Toss, get one fairly early if you're afraid of phoenix's. Don't be afraid of geting a good amount of Spore Crawlers. 4 ones may seem a good amount since they're "towers" - but look at the facts: It's 400 minerals. That's equal to what, 1.7? (right off the bat) Phoenix's. I assume he had way more than 3 phoenix's since you say your Spore Crawlers were in good positions. Each Phoenix costs him 250 resources (150 minerals 100 gas) so that's equal to 2.5 Spore Crawlers resource-wise, If you consider gas being more worth than minerals - It would equal about 3 Spore Crawlers per Phoenix. You don't need 3 Spore Crawlers per phoenix obviously (^_^), but as mentioned - don't be afraid to have many. You will still use less resources on them than he does on Phoenix's.
In most cases he's better off leaving the queens alone unless they're in isolation, it takes forever to kill queens with phoenixes and you can do more damage just avoiding the queens and picking up drones. IMO the best counter to phoenixes is spores and outmacro... if he keeps going phoenix, you can expand easily. He'll kill drones but just keep pumping drones. 3 drones is cheaper than one phoenix... just pump drones like crazy, protect your overlords, then push out with roach/hydra/flanking lings.
just so you know with four phoneix i cannot kill a queen with one grav i must use two, to get up to 4 takes some time. and if you have a second queen (which is useful at any time) i must lift her now i dont think i can kill a queen with 2 lifts i need 3 and i dont have the mana straight up to do that and get both queen. (also it takes so long you can build another queen/ or a spore crawler) once i have killed the first queen im close to out of mana with these guys and need 2 more lifts. at which point i cannot do anything to your min line as intended and have spent alot of time microing guys for little. 2 queen will help, which is why i dont do this vs zerg
