I'm having a little problem dealing with mass mutalisk as a protoss. The unit we have to specifically counter the mutalisk is the pheonix, but I find it seems rather impossible to get them out as fast as mutalisks come out, and once the mutalisks are gone they become rather useless. So I ask thee! Owl to Owl, How can I deal with such a threat? I've lost every game I've played against mass mutalisks. My strategy is thus: sentries with stalkers. Use Guardian Shield during confrontations. Quietly tech to HT. Immortal drop their mineral lines while the mutas are distracted. I've yet to get to HTs. My immortal drops work and I take out all their mining, but the mutas eventually overpower my army. HELP ME!
This has to be the first time I've heard of an immortal drop to harass the mineral line Do it with zealot and GTFO when they come back to defend. And phoenices are still good to lift things like roaches, so try complementing them with zealots maybe? You can also just defend until you get to HTs and micro properly. For example bait them with 1 or 2 stalkers... they'll stop to kill them, at which point you can storm them nicely.
Immortal drop because against zerg I tend to get a fast immortal, and since they go mass muta might as well use it for something, lol. They 2 hit drones btw
But why go immortal? Only unit that it's good against until late game is the roach. And even then that's only for the DPS...I don't think Z even has high damage land units until you get to to ultra's. Playing P vs Z the biggest thing I worry about are lings until I have my 4 gate or 3 gate 1 robo up. Gotta get 2-3 lots out to choke the ramp.
Of course it's impossible to "get them out as fast." Phoenixes cost more than mutas, and the zerg players can always pump mutas out of their hatcheries faster than you can make warp in units from your stargates. This makes it balanced. If you could get them "out as fast," then it would be OP. With good micro, you can kill significantly more mutas than you have phoenixes. Que? Have you never heard of graviton beam? You can pick up and kill workers, queens, roaches, and every other ground unit except for the ultralisk. If you don't even have enough APM to do that, you can still blow up every unprotected overlord on the map.
You sir are under the mistaken impression that APM = success. That aside, I will say useless in that mass phoenix in a PvZ become useless when you have large army compositions, that is, more mid and late game. Obviously they are good for overlord hunting and harassment, but in main army compositions all they can do is grab a few units into the air, and when the zerg gets hydralisks, they go down like your mama after a few drinks. I'm not putting the pheonix down, I'm just saying they aren't good in big numbers in a PvZ all they do is eat up supply and minerals, as soon as the zerg transitions out of mutas they are dead, and this point is moot anyway given that you can't pump them out fast enough to deal with mutas anyway. Now listen, it is possible, with perfect micro, to not get hit by a muta while attacking it with a pheonix. They outrange the muta and can shoot while moving.
No he's not. He just said that if you don't feel comfortable microing a lot you can just use what you have in another effective way. That's why phoenix/colossus is a combo many zerg players fear. because colossi melt hydras which are the only gta unit the zerg has appart from queens. When the zerg transitions out of mutalisks the protoss can as easily transition out of phoenixes and use the remaining ones to either graviton beam units to reduce the incoming dmg during a big battle or harass mineral lines or hunt overlords, your pick. Just like butter said...
I also have tried mass phoenix versus mass mutalisk. It just doesn't work. Even in a pure air fight you're likely to get beat with phoenixes, which is pretty ridiculous since they are supposed to be specialty anti-air units. Quit fooling yourselves. It's obvious that Protoss is way UP. As obvious as an elephant in the room. Why don't we say something about this?
And yet you can't deliver the killing blow with these phoenixes, whereas mutalisks can wipe out absolutely everything. Mutalisks are better anti-air and anti-ground as well. Maybe if the phoenix had 3 times more hit points, then it might be fair.
You pretty much can, especially if the units you lifted up are light phoenixes do 20 dmg a shot against them. As for the mutalisk vs phoenix comparison: Mutalisk Phoenix 100m100g 2s 150m100g 2s 120hp 120hp +60 shields 180 total 3 range 4 range 3.75 speed 4.25 speed 9 dmg/1.53sec(5.88dps) 5(+5)*2 dmg/1.1 sec(9.1dps, 18.2 vs light) Bounces 3 times for possible 9 extra dmg total. Armor applies every time. Best case scenario 11.76 dps. Now, without any micro an equal amount of minerals of phoenixes easily beats an equal amount of minerals of mutalisks(50% more). With perfect micro(I seriously fail at that) with the extra range and speed a small amount of phoenixes can kill an unlimited amount of mutalisks given that they are faster and have a better range. So clearly you're quite mistaken at that. I'll provide a replay of a unit test map testing these out. I fail at the 5phoenix vs 10 mutalisk micro(get most mutas to ~10-15 hp and die) but on even advantageous terms(1500mineral/1000gas/20supply of phoenixes vs 1500minerals/1500gas/30 supply of mutas(10 vs 15) phoenixes win with relative ease.) Now if you can provide a replay to back up your point, feel free to do so. Also the fact that phoenixes do so high dmg on light units and can move that fast makes them ideal to pin an enemy inside their base and make them build anti-air and waste minerals there, while still being an incredible harass unit(they 2shot workers, 3shot marines etc and move at 4.25 faster than any other unit in the game, and able to move from expo to expo and keep harassing) makes them easily one of the most powerful units of protoss... They also beat vikings head on despite vikings being armored... Seriously, by your posts I can only assume that you haven't played starcraft almost at all or you're just trolling... Edit: Also talking about balance, when it comes to PvZ it's zerg that are the underpowered race. At this time, a Void Ray/Colossus/gateway army is unbeatable by any combination of units the zerg can get maxed out on. And I'm not talking simply maxed out, but a 300 supply push, remaxing as soon as the zerg units die... Cruncher did it against Idra and won at some TSL(i think) while being seriously outplayed, just to give a recent example...
I really hope chaos is trolling tbh... 2 threads complaining about UP toss? lol, seen this argument try and fail 1 few too many times...
