Protoss Strategy Discussion

Is there a thread for this? If so it hasn't been around for a while.

Discuss: Protoss Strategy

PvP, PvT, PvZ, PvR

Here is the beginning build I use:
9 Pylon
10 Boost
12 Gateway
12 Boost
14 Gas
14Boost
16 Pylon
---
PvP / PvZ branch
Boost zealot
Cyber
Zealot
Pylon
---
PvT branch
Cyber
Pylon or I guess most people get like 2nd gas then a second gateway or something. I don't care. All about the pylon.

General PvP strategy:
3 warp gate into citadel / blink into robo / obs / immortal

General PvT strategy:
3 warp gate into expand into robo / immortal or colos, and just get charge and blink and lots of units and all that goodness.

General PvZ strategy:
3 warp gate into expand into robo / colos and immortals for roaches.

Obviously not perfect. The PvT strategy could get you killed. Still it's not like it won't carry you to #1 on the ladder.


Random stuff:
For PvZ
Try a high eco build (lots of boosts to probes) that goes 2gate zealots (like 13/15 gate or something...no need to rush) into DT rush into expand. It has a similar feel to the 2gate tech in starcraft 1. That is...high pressure on zerg that just makes them wtf weak to your mid-game macro unless they have some kind of perfect reaction. Pretty sweet.

 

Maybe Im just retarded but I always do this:
8 --> pylon
10--> gate
and chrono boost the probe in between. I watch the replays and Im always the first one to get a gateway. Isnt that good? Especially against a ling rush?

 

Hey,

So my online name is High and I'm ranked #1 in my diamond league and I have a record of like 14-4 overall. I play protoss right now almost exclusively, and I'll give you guys my two cents about the race.

#1. I'm not the type of player who worries about boosting my APM. During the early stages of the game my apm may be as low as 20-30. I finish usually with an APM around 60-80. I feel like you don't need a very high apm to be a very effective protoss player. I think zerg needs the highest amp to be effective, and terran somewhere in between.

#2. I used to alternate between voidray builds and robo builds. Alot of people complained about the voids range. After the nerf, i SWEAR you CANNOT ever go void against a good player (zerg maybe) and win. Noobs all day sure. But a good player will scout, counter, and bend you over like a cheap hooker. Ive tried void/zeal/striker into a carrier build as well. No go. Tech takes to long...to much money...can't make it work well.

Which brings me to point #3....

#3. I destroy zerg players on the regular, even the diamond leaguers. I just don't see how a zerg player can stop a zealot, sentry, striker, immortal push. I can put this army together fast off of 1 base. Even if this attack doesnt end the game It will hurt the Z player, at least decimate his army and force him to build more units instead of expanding. While I attack I usually epxand, and tech to collosus. If he counters my attack I'll have 3 warp gates, chrono boost, and at least 1 robo, and I will be able to easily put enough units back on the field to hold his counter. At this point its simple. just pump a bunch of sentries, zealots and strikers (the sentry is seriously the most important protoss unit) aloing with a couple colossus and immortal. This second push is never stopped. I'll always take out a least one expansion. The only games i have lost to a zerg player are when he gets into my base with to many speed lings. Zealots and immortals go balls deep into ultralisks btw. I swear 2 base protoss can march all over 4 base zerg with the right unit combination. Now, if the zerg players gets to broodlords I dunno....but I never give my opponent that kind of time in 1v1. 2v2 is different.

#4. Agasint another protoss player you have to go gate---> Cynenetics--->robo (while reseraching warp gate. One gate to robo, as long as you keep pumping from that gate, will allow to to gain the tech edge, get on ob in his base, get and early immortal that tears up strikers, and allow u to expand. Protoss only need 2 expos to basically but out a massive army of a great unit compoistion. Blinking stikeres can do good harass. But if you can fend if off, the amount of resources he put into that worthless citadel tech will allow ur robo army to fist him. gg

#5. I don';t think early expo is ever a good Idea until you get to at least robo tech. I just don't think as a protoss player you can hold an early expo. You opponent should see it and simply have to many units for you to hold it. Maybe the most ideal maps like Lost temple...but i still think its just a bad idea.

#6. I hate playing against terran. The only way I ever beat a good terran players is by gaining map control and not allowing him his third. with tanks, powerful bio/medivac, trying to attack a terran choke point is suicide...so all my PvT games are my buidling up a huge *** army, putting obs all over the map so I can watch him. And just starve him out. Thats the key to beating a terran player. Catching his amry on the move. If you let him walk acorss the map and seige up right outside your choke you are sodomized.

#7. Anyone ever use mother ships if not in a FFA and building a massive fleet?

#8. In a FFA (i hate ffa's in SC2) I don't know how to deal with a fleet of BCS with supporting units. I feel like a terran max army with bcs will beat any combonation of units that protoss can put out there. Maybe storm would help? I dunno.

 

I wouldn't waste a boost on 10 when you can only make one probe till that pylon is up

 

wow extremely long post. I moved up to #1 in my division in the gold league and was feelin good about myself, but now I've lost like 4 games in a row. It just seems like as soon as I have a decent army of zealots and sentries, they come at me with immortals or just more units than i have. How in the world are they getting units so fast?? Its only against protoss and terran that this happens. I rape zerg every time.

 

I usually don't lose except to Terran. GOD I HATE TERRAN! Im def gonna try to do more of what "High" posted see how i do =P.

 

High knows what hes talking about, I've been winning against terran consistantly because i maprape them with obs, stalker blink, and collossi on their mineral line

 

Everything High said is pretty much true. There is more than one way to go about PvZ though but it's all basically that sort of 3 warp gate into robo sort of thing, unless you do a timing 4 or 5 warp gate push. Or void rays (still haven't used the damn things really). One immortal helps a lot against roaches. Also against other Protoss players if you go for robo early you have to be very careful about 4-5 warp gate pushes. Good FF timing would be a requirement.

Also I might note in PvZ be careful about when you push out. You want an army that will be hard to take down before you push out. Even if you're ahead of zerg...pushing out before your army is "critical mass" can let Zerg counter it and then catch up to you.

As for 8 pylon 10 gateway yeah of course get the boost after 8 pylon. I think that's a fine build if you really want your gateway that early.

 

Protoss rush.... but not how you'd guess.

I've been playing the beta for about a week or so and have found a tactic that works more often than not and thought i'd share ti with you / get your opinions on it. usually i win most games within the first 6 minutes, failing that the opponents are usually crippled so that i have too big an advantage in terms or resources etc. Its not 100% but it works.

Basically send a probe (call it probe x) off into the enemy base from outset and hide it out of their field of vision, build probes till limit and build pylon near your ramp. build a forge and subsequently cannons to block your base off at the ramp. Build a pylon at probe x close to the enemies resource but again out of view. All the while using excess materials to create more probes until you have blocked your base off. get probe x to build 2 cannons to stop anythign from killing the pylon powering it. Build pylons / cannons directly into the heart of the enemy base and bobs your uncle. If your oponent is Zerg then simply build the pylons / cannons around the edge of the creep to cut off any advances they make, buidla gateway to produce a couple of zealots that can finish off the buildings your cannons cant reach.

Most people dont see this coming, they are always concerned with building units and protecting their base, they never expect you to build right into it.

 

Yeah I could see that working on certain maps. Smart players could scout their base for your probe though. Make sure to send a second probe too.

 

ok first thing is aimed at high.

your saying in p v p to go early cyber and basically build on your economy and get the tech edge. i partly agree but from my experience if i go 13 gateway then 17 2 more gateway + cyber + gas then 50/50 chance in gold league i will get rushed by about 7 zealots which is enough to wipe you out unless you have gone 12 gateway and say 15 2nd gateway and pump zealots instead of teching.

whats your view on this high? how do you respond if your Protoss and teching and the other protoss is gonna zealot rush you. youve already built your cyber and mass and hes pumping zealots what can you do to respond?

as for zerg i agree with you there i can wipe zerg out early doors with zealot rush. my main issues are in pvp

and zangestu your tactic might work occasionly maybe in copper league but its risky and not many people fall for that in gold league mate .

Infact when i see someone send a probe in my base... i pretend i didnt see him.. they go intoa corner i jsut ignore it until i think theyve had sufficient time to build a pylon and start researching warp gatyes then i will take it down meaning lost resources for them. there tactic is up in smoke and while theyve been focusing on teching to cannons/warp gates suddenly there pylon is destroyed and they have a small army coming at them.

 

I just tech for stalkers and micro to face 2gate. Most Protoss wall but I don't. If it's a proxy 2gate then hope you sent out a pylon scout or else you're in trouble. If it's like 4 player map and an otherwise fast 2gate then that might be kind of tough. Just micro though. And I always get 2 zealots as I tech cyber.

 

I appreciate what your saying but i'm platinum league, not copper and this tactic works more games than not. When it comes to 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4... granted in the team games i'm reliant on having support in rushing from at least one other team when i push and if terrans produce tanks and research siege without support i'm a sitting duck and it fails entirely. my initial probe is usually in the enemy base before they see it and keeping it out of sight is key.
Should the initial tactic fail then i'm not worried about being countered as the three cannons at the ramp finish off most immediate comebacks.

 

This is called a cannon rush, it's a well-known cheese tactic with some well-known defenses that include: good scouting/building supply depots/pylons throughout your main base, blocking construction with units, attacking the probe before it can finish building, and so on. It rarely works in higher leagues but it's pretty funny when it does.

 

put your tactic into this situation also galaxy.

your going 2 zealots then gas units. u send your scout after 1st gateway i presume?

u get there u see he has 2 possibly 3? gateways bein built no cyber or gas. meanwhile u have cyber + gass + 2 gateways and 2 zealots. now he could have 7 zealots by now because firstly he has more probes on minerals cos he hasnt gone cyber and gas but also cos he didnt bother to scout u instead just left his probe on the mineral line.

he could have a forward proxy base but assuming uve scouted for that how do you respond when you know he has to travel the map to rush u still? do you change your tactic as u know the zealot rush is coming?

do you think u can get sentry/stalker up before his 7 zealots get to your pylons?

not gunning everyone down or anythin im just givin constructive critisism as im tryin to learn more too.

 

even if i dont see the probe coming in tho zangestu i allways send a probe waypointed round my internal base jsut to be sure during a timeframe where it doesnt hit my eceonomy and under the time limit where they cud possibly have a cannon up. it has worked for me a few times tho ill admit that but i find it too risky.

 

Well I don't get a 2nd gateway personally. Just the way I do it.

I doubt he would have 7 zealots by the time I get my first stalker unless he's really really fast. What I would do is use probes/zealots to handle his initial zealots and then once I got my stalker I'd hit run hit run a bunch. If he went for my workers I'd run them away.

And yeah I usually gateway scout. I'm not sure which I like better yet though so I might change it up some.

 

hmm ill give that a try i didnt know only 1 gateway cud be sucsessfull assuming u deal with the first rush with 1 gateway when do u go the second gateway then before or after a robotics ?

 

If you hold them off it doesn't matter too much. I would just get more gateways and go kill them, and add down a forge with a cannon or two just to prevent dark templar comebacks. Chances are they'll be way behind unless they killed a lot of your probes or something.

What do you guys think about phoenixes?
PvP? (for immortals, stalkers, colos)
PvT? (for marauders, ghosts, vikings)
PvZ? (for overlords, queens, hydras etc.)
To me they seem to be viable in every match up in the game. They are pretty cool although I don't use them myself really.

 

havnt realy had chance to use phoenixes well ive seen some people in replays micro them round amazingly but i just seem to be focused on other things but they do seem viable in every tactic i will have to learn to micro them well at some point.

i just dont see how 1 gateway can work. i dont think ive ever lost to someone with 1 gateway and ive tried it and 2 early cannons cannot prevent an early rush.

against zerg the only way to hold the zergling rush in is to counter with a zealot rush with min of 2 gateways.

i think gateway at 13 and 2x gateway and cyber at 17 is the best trade oiff at the moment between rushing and economy. id rather have a gateway than a forge i think. if i see someone with a forge when i scout i will either zealot rush them before cannons up otherwise i will build mroe gateways or possibly void rays to pick there cannons/pylons off knowing i have a gateway advantage over them.

im sure if i timed a 2 gateway 5-7 zealot rush against a 2 zealot + 2 cannon + sentry + stalker 7 zealots will be at your base before the cannon + sentry + stalker is up.