Protoss Omnidiscussion

The Omnidiscussion is back with a three part topic. In the coming months I will be asking all of you what you think about the units and races as a whole and asking you to rate your satisfaction with the races. I will also be taking suggestions on what can be done to improve the races.

This month will focus on the Protoss; please rate the Protoss race (see poll) and leave your thoughts regarding why you chose that rating as well as any thoughts you have about the units, structures, abilities and mechanics. In addition if you have any ideas on how to improve any aspect of the Protoss please post them. Try to make your responses somewhat thorough, I will not take "I hate this unit", or " I hate that ability" as a response.

Unit information to come once I get excel installed and can look up stats

 

I picked a four on this one. My choice would actually be more of a 90% awesome rather than an 80% one, but I just chose this one. I like how the Protoss is going. It has an identitity, it has a good balance in units that don't overlap too much. The reason I marked it down though is just because for a long long long time now, I've felt that the Colossus was a bit overpowered, with a ground counter nearly impossible. They just need to find a good balance for this unit a bit, along with a few tweaks here and there for other units (MS, Carrier) and I'd be set to go. I'm a Terran player...but my favorite unit is still the Stalker

 

As many of you guys have said/noticed/explained, the Protoss seem to be the most complete race at the moment. They seem to be holding on to their race identity from the original Starcraft, while still gaining new ground for Starcraft 2. As a result, I gave them five stars. Because the game is not yet finished, I did not take balance into account for my rating.

The Protoss have a lot of strong, expensive units, just like the original game. Their shield/health system is also identical, and this makes me happy. All of the new mechanics (warp-in, Phase Prism power fields, charging Zealot, etc.) fit nicely and make for an interesting addition.

There is only one weak point I perceive at the moment - the Mothership. Originally intended to be a super-unit of sorts, Blizzard eventually decided to give it the role of the former Arbiter as air caster. It is built at the Nexus now, and has three abilities - a new Recall, cloaking, and time bomb. It is also extremely slow.

This is a big disappointment for me. Black Hole was awesome (understandably it had to be nerfed, and Void was still cool) and Planet Cracker was ballin. Not to mention that I HATE slow speed. The Mothership has been changed and tweaked so much that at this point we might as well see the Arbiter. Blizzard needs to bring back some of the previous "oomph" that the unit had.

So basically other than the Mothership, the Protoss are great. I am certainly satisfied with them.

 

I give it a four as well.

Awesome units:

Zealot. Charge is awesome.

Stalker. What's not to like?

High Templar and Dark Templar. Old good units. The former's hallucination lasts a really long time, long enough to seriously mess with your opponents' heads. (This is awesome against Banelings, apparently.)

Immortal: Here's where it gets more complicated. I like this unit mainly because I think the Siege Tank's combination of explosive damage and AoE damage (in StarCraft I) was overpowered, leading to them being overused. I heard it takes 20 damage a hit now, which reduces its efficiently greatly against most units that aren't Siege Tanks. If so, that means it is too limited.

Phase Prism: Very awesome, revolutionary in fact with its pylon field generator. The ability to replace pylons is ho-hum, IMO; if someone can blow up a pylon, they can blow up a Phase Prism, but the ability to warp-in troops before you get a Mothership is just sounding awesome.

Nullifier: Made of condensed awesomeness. Force Field is just too sweet. Anti-Gravity looks like it could be useful against Terrans, too (since you can move Supply Depots out of the way). I hope it no longer channels to use Anti-Gravity. Incidentally, the ability to do extra damage against shields is very flavorful; I hope Ulrezaj lives into StarCraft II and uses these fellows.

Warp Ray: Like the nullifier, made of win. Kills big ships like the Scout did, but also has a great anti-ground attack. (Blizzard seems to be creating new roles despite having the same number of units, leading to lots of units with multiple roles. I like this, as it means any individual unit is more likely to be useful for the whole game.)

Mothership, the unit that everyone seems to really like or really hate. I really like it. I just wish they would switch out the Energy Recharge ability for Planet Cracker (even though I know they removed it due to role issues). I'm glad it doesn't have cloaking anymore (IMO, cloaking buildings is just silly) and Black Hole kept breaking the game. The latter should be a hero ability, or (if they bring it back) it should only be able to kill one unit, such as a single Battlecruiser.

I need to know more about Summon before I can give it a really good rating; how does it compare to Warp-In?

Meh units:

Archons. I hardly ever used these guys outside of single player. I think making them from Dark Templar is a bit easier (since you won't bother trying to make multiple High Templar run out of energy simultaneously).

Carrier. Basically the same. I heard it's weaker. It is certainly looking very expensive.

Probe. It's a probe.

Problem units:

The Phoenix. Too slow, and can't attack ground. The latter is a real problem, because you can only use it as a reaction to what your opponent is doing. (This is in marked contrast to the Corsair, whose disruption web ability was always useful.)

The Colossus: Apparently too powerful, although I don't know how. Maybe they should cut the damage (but give it back, in a way, with a damage bonus that only applies to light-armored units). It needs to keep splash, no matter what the attack looks like.

 

I wont be fully satisfied until I know the ins and outs of the race. I.E. Various strategies that haven't been discovered yet. Kind of like how most Terran strategies weren't discovers until Boxer in 2001.

Edit: I see lots of potential in new capabilities like the overload ability. However, the Protoss seem to have all the best cards in their hands. Colossus will pwn pretty much any small unit while the Immortals have the advantage on the big ones.

 

i chose a three but meant to choose a four i like how the protoss are going, but they have some problems. I do not like the collosus power and attack type. If it is that strong, it should not have an AoE type attack. THe pheonix is too slow and i also dont like the carriers weakness as shown in the video where four of them take forever to destroy one battlecruiser. I love the new units models for the zealots and the dark templar, but i do not like the model for the carrier as it seems too open.

 

Colossus AoE is essential.

There's no more Reaver in the multiplayer lineup. Part of what the Reaver is so great is that it could instantly demolish groups of units like Hydralisks. In some ways, the Colossus isn't even that strong. It just seems like it's too strong against high hit point units.

 

But the thing is, it took continuous spending and continuous micromanagement to keep Reavers going. Plus, there was a reasonable cooldown per individual shot. The Colossus just keeps going and going and going and going. Even Siege Tanks required a few to keep momentum in the barrage.

 

Reavers had that balance mechanic, but (most importantly) they could kill multiple units simultaneously.

If Colossi did low damage (but high vs light units) they could flash-zap the light units very quickly (like a Reaver) while doing very slow, pitiful damage to Siege Tanks. It would take some number crunching and playtesting to get the numbers right.

The Reaver's cooldown wasn't a big deal when dealing with smaller, weaker units as it could do 100 or 125 damage a hit, more than enough to wipe out whatever Marines or Hydras it was aiming at. (Of course, it might not get them all, but a Colossus' effective AoE is even smaller.)

 

I'm giving it a four because it's clear that Protoss has had dthe most work done on it (and it definitely shows!) but now the other races are being worked on more, so Blizzard has limited time to work on Protoss mechanics. Because of this, the result is a "trying to fix what ain't broken" situation, IMO

The biggest problem I have right now is the Carrier. The escorts have been taken away, which is good, but according to Jon's comfirmation of Nikzad's statsheet, carriers do 10 damage TOTAL per attack cycle, as opposed to the 40 damage 8 interceptor hits would do in SC:BW, as well as losing 50 hp. It's completely useless. The money would be better spent on Colossi/Pheonixes. This needs to be fixed as soon as possible, lest we lose the functionality of such an iconic Protoss unit.

The Colossus: I'm still not a fan of the new attack, though I hear the new sweeping animation is much more pleasing to the eye. Either way, the new attack seems to make the colossus almost unstoppable unless you use air to counter it, yet it would be ineffective without any splash damage. The old attack should be brought back, with a 1x1 or 2x2 square splash damage around the beam's contact point.

The Pheonix: As Kimera757 said, slow moving and AtA only. Needs to be changed.

Stalker: Minor problem, but the Stalker just seems a bit cartoony in comparison with the rest of the Protoss forces. It should be tweaked a bit.

Mothership: Has been toyed with so much it has lost it's identity. It needs it's original speed back, and the Recharge energy to be replaced by the Planet Cracker. Recall and and Time Bomb are just fine, however. (warp in a bunch of units to the enemy's base, then befor they know what hit em you recall them all back to your base )

Otherwise, everything is fine with the protoss. The High/Dark Templar for Archon choice is great, as it allows you to still create archons while conserving gas or minerals as you need them. The Nullifier is also a great new addition to the line of Protoss spellcasters. Say goodbye to pesky enemy abilities like Disease or Snipe

 

Actually, the reports suggest that Nullify was removed (although the Nullifier still has Force Field and Anti-Gravity).

 

Really? D= that sucks.

 

I gave it a 4 because the Protoss as the most complete I think right now. They still need a couple of tweaks here and there, but overall they're cool. IMO I liked the idea of the counterpart to the carrier (I blanked out and forgot its name) Because it had melee interceptors.

 

The Tempest

 

I can't say I liked the Tempest. The Dark Templar were a nomadic people, so even their biggest cities were nowhere near the scale of the Khalai settlements on Aiur. Knowing this, it would seem awkward that they would be able to build a huge capital ship that launches shuriken at enemies.

 

He didn't say that Nullifiers had been cut, he said that Nullify had been removed. That's the AoE spell that makes everything under it unable to use energy-based abilities.

 

I voted four stars. The Protoss seem nearly finished, but after reading many testimonials from WWI goers, the word is that they're overpowered.

The Colossus seems to be the unit to get when facing Terran or Zerg. There doesn't seem to be much of a counter to them whatsoever, especially for Zerg players.

The Phoenix's overload ability renders Zerg air basically useless. One or two Overloads kill entire swarms of Mutalisks, Swarm Guardians, Corruptors, etc.

The Mothership has returned to a 'super' unit like role. It's extremely difficult to kill and now has a Recall-like ability. Players claimed it acted as a "Town Portal", as seen in Warcraft III. This is horrible news.

Nullifyers, well, I just find it dumb.

 

I gave it 4 stars,cause game play with Protoss is going to be very very interesting.
It didn't got 5 stars cause it is not yet finished,and it is going in very interesting direction,but in the end it will
get 5 starts i think,i hope.

 

I gave it a 4 stars. Just like what most people said, the Protoss seems to be the most complete. Blizzard has been working on them the most and everything about the Protoss really fits the Protoss identity.

What does Protoss need to jump to a 5 in my eyes?

1. Mothership. I still think that the Mothership needs more polishing. It's at the highest end of the tech-tree and costs a ton. Yet in the current build, it's just a support unit that moves extremely slow. From the looks of it, no one is probably gonna build any Mothership. But after seeing Dustin Browder's latest interview at starcraftwire about their concerns and issues about Mothership and how it is the hardest unit atm to balance, I think Blizzard will make the right decision. They will tweak the Mothership until they get it right.

2. Dark Templar model. I personally hate the current Dark Templar model. I also hate the way that they cloak. (Just a bunch of blue energy). They should look cloaked but also have a pretty clear look to its model in game just like the original SC. And of course, Blizzard said they are not done the Dark Templar model and are planning to revamp it back to the original SC1 model. I'm more then happy to welcome the old Dark Templar model back. If not, at least Blizzard is going to revamp the Dark Templar to look something more kick ass then their counterpart. (Just like what Blizzard did to the old siege tanks).

3. Phoenix. From the WWI reports, people are saying it moves too slow. On top of that, they can't hit ground units. But I do remember back in BlizzCon, people were claiming that they were very overpowered because they fly extremely fast, and also hit ground. Maybe that is why Blizzard nerfed it. But one thing that I dislike about the Phoenix is that they seem to be a bit plain. They don't strike the (cool factor ) into me at all. I think Blizzard should axe the Phoenix and make a new Protoss air fighter.

4. Stalker. Everything about the Stalker 's abilities and it's role spells "AWESOME". But what I really don't like is their model. They look too cartoonish. Blizzard should make the Stalker a bit more sleek + slim. They look too chubby for something that can blink around.

That basically sums up everything. And yes, I believe Blizzard can easily fix all these issues knowning that they are not finished with the game yet and that they have made huge improvements to the Terran models (Noting that they did the Terrans first and that Protoss and Zergs will follow soon after). Even if Blizzard doesn't fix all these issues that I have listed, they could still get a 5 by the time they release by compensating with other stuffs.

So yea, I am fully confident that by the time the game releases, I will be giving the Protoss a 5 as while as the Terrans and Zergs.

 

i do believe that the mothership needs a LOT of polishing. from the scources i have read, all it has is the recharge, recall, and time bomb which is lame for something as potentially 1337 as the ship. they need to bring back at LEAST vortex or planet cracker as right now it seems very weak even as a support unit. I am not worried about having a hearth stone for my army, so they can drop that or recharge for these. I also see the cloacking field as a more supportive ability than recharge or recall. the mothership is currently the biggest barrier for me from giving the protoss a five. I revoke what i said earlier about meaning to give it a four and now see my three as fitting. at the time i didnt know the mother ship had been so baddly nerfed