Protoss help - seem to be short on vesp gas. ideas for a noob?

Please help. I'm relatively new to SC2, and pretty good at RTS games in general. I originally started off playing as Terran quite a bit, then switched to Protoss. It seems that often times during mid-game, I'm usually averaging around 800 in unused minerals. It seems that even though I have 6 probes on gas, I still dont have enough gas to keep up with unit production. I usually don't build as many zealots because they seem like they are very weak units (although, I usually don't research charge, either). I usually end up going for more of a stalker, immortal, colossus build, then later in the game i'll usually try to build some void rays, etc if necessary. Also, during all of this I'm trying to keep up with upgrades from the forge, I also have usually around 4-5 gateways (warpgates), 2-3 robotics, and 2 or so stargates.

Even with all of these things, and a relatively large army, it seems like I'm always waiting on vesp gas, and cannot build some of the higher tech units that i need in order to stay in the game. What should I try to do differently so I can keep pumping out the stalkers and immortals, as well as keep up with the tech upgrades? I don't usually expand early due to the fear of getting crapped on with my expansion base. Should I be expanding earlier just for the vesp gas? Should I just be building more Zealots to keep my mineral float count low? I'm rarely short on minerals...

 

You're not low on gas, you're rich on minerals! Yeah--get the zealot charge. Playing as protoss, you will always be rich on minerals (or poor on gas, however you want to say it). This nice thing about zealots is that they don't cost any gas and they are great fodder units. They absorb the damage while your colossi and templars deal it out.

Another thing that you can spend your money on is expanding. 800 minerals can be spent on a nexus, a pylon, and 2 photon cannons. Once those are up, build two assimilators and your gas problems are over!

You're running 2–3 robotics, 4–5 gates, and 2 stargates without expanding? No wonder you're having resource problems! You need at least 2 bases to support that. I usually do 3–4 gates and 1 robotics on my first base. After I expand, I can upgrade to 6 gates, 2 robotics and 2 stargates. I don't know that 3 robotics is a good idea without at least 6 gates. The robotics units are pretty weak without adequate zealot and stalker support.

 

If you're rarely short on minerals, you definitely should expand.

A typical toss player tends to expand @~45-50 supply. And like ZergFerg said, 3 robotics is kind of unnecessary.

 

So basically just keep pushing those zealots out with the idea that they're toast? I guess an army of 20-30 zealots in front of some stalkers would definitely slow some things down for the opposition, allowing my stalkers to do some work, even if they (Edit: the zealots) are just meat..

 

zealots with charge are some of the most powerful units in the game and with upgraddes they rip appart stalkers collus tanks immortalls mmm, zerglings hydras, basically anything that isnt air also dont one base. at least go for 2 base if not 3

 

Well think of a game thats PvP, who is going to win, the person sitting on 800 minerals, or the person that makes 7 zealots with his minerals?

Alternatively, spent that money on expos and refineries, still you will probably end up with more minerals then gas. It seems a bit odd to get lower tier units when higher tier units are unlocked, but where else are you going to spend those minerals? If you want to keep those units from obsoleting get upgrades.

 

Thanks for the additional insight, guys! Tried to get to warpgate fast last night and kept it mostly with about 5 gates on my first base. Built quite a few zealots and had them upgraded on the ground attack through forge. Also built a bunch of stalkers and sentrys.. SWEET combo. The sentries are really a game-changer. having 5-6 of those with stalkers and zealots allows the zealots to act as meat shield and then i have the stalkers shielded, so even with opponent aiming at stalkers, they are mildly protected.

I won 4 silver league 1v1 in a row last night, all where i was not the favored opponent in the match. Looking at the graph in the end, there were 2 matches where I f'ed up my build and was WAY behind on the army size.. With the stalkers, sentry, zealot (+2 attack), I was able to take out a very large stalker army and become victor. In the other game vs Terran I was able to deal some real damage to the marines with my stalkers while attacking his marauders with my zealots. Charge is an awesome ability, and blink isnt 1/2 bad either. Just wish that when I use blink that my sentries would follow so I can keep some protection on my stalkers.

The most annoying thing so far is the void ray rush when playing against another protoss....

 

when you get your gateway, thats when you get your 1st gas, then when you get your cybernetics you get your 2nd gas.

your unit composition isn't mixed enough... i find against zerg, i can balance out my resources more, because the most effective combo, is zealots and sentries. when playing against terran and protoss, you really need a mix of zlots/stalkers/and 2-3 sentries.

 

@ chow - how soon do you usually push for 2nd nex? what about robotics (facility, bay, colossus), or stargate? I know alot depends on the game, but what are averages?

also, when you push for 2nd nex, how do you defend it? what buildings are common for your 2nd nex. I'm also finding myself having a tough time in the game when i find i have to expand due to resources, etc.

Now that I've changed my strat, I actually am floating a LOT fewer resources, and finding it would be good to have that 2nd nex, but dont know a good strat to building with it/defending it.

btw - you really 8 in 1v1 diamond? Thats ridic!

 

@ supernova

glad to read that you are asking smart questions (unlike some lol).

The best time to expand:
1- is after the 1st big fight, that you have won but enough to finish the game
2- when your opponent has blocked himself in (turtling)
3- when you fully saturated your resources

- depends on your macro and what your opponent is going... what I like to do is a 4 gateway and robotics and chrono boost an observer. If your macro isn't too good, cut down 1 gateway and get your robotics
- I only go colossi if there wasn't much fighting and they have big armies, otherwise immortals (70% of the time i go immortals, if the game has gone past 15min with barely any fighting --> colossi)
-stargate i only get if I want to cheese them, and get a quick win, but its risky.
- late game is all up to you, expand and find out what your opponent is committing to..

=> like i said, after a battle you want to pump a small army, 4 stalkers 1 sentry, get 2 cannons and stand your ground at your 2nd nexus. (use chrono boost for your stalkers)
- make sure you make extra probes while you are building your 2nd nexus so you can transfer.
- cannons just in case he managed to send invisible units.

yup, i think im in diamond league division 4. I used to be 1st-2nd back in beta but now a lot more good players are on.

I have beaten LzGamer and inControL in 1v1s, LzGamer in straight up macro/micro game, but inControL i honestly cheesed him.

I hope I gave you the answers you were looking for