Protoss anti air

Ok after seeing that video of those battle cruisers completely dominateing the protoss a while back I can"t get this out of my head.

It seems the only heavy ata protoss have right now (especially against the battle cruiser) is the warp ray and that thing just seems a bit too expensive to mass because of how much health it has and this just seems to be one of the biggest flaws of the protoss.

solution
make the stalker stronger and do a total of 20 damage when hitting armored units or have it so the immortal can attack air and make the stalker do more damage versus bio units but still make it 20 damage total.

or

give the phoenix a attack that does some kind of heavier damage after its attack for a certian amount of time which it does at random and give the anti grav to someone else.

The video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfUijY5w1GU

 

Hmm, I dont think the phoenix is balanced right now, which might be the problem. I think it will end up being like the corsair (good against massed). Actually protoss didnt have anything strong against BC's in sc1 either, the problem is just that protoss can push if the Terran goes BC's, as they take far too long to mass, and before Terran have a lot stalkers should be able to take care. I agree with the warp-ray part, which I think will be used much more as a siege unit than anything else.

 

But the dragoon costs the same as a stalker and did 20 damage and had more health for one and 2 the battle cruiser is now a carrier on crack with 100 more health and more possible abilities.

its does a total of 64 damage non upgraded the old one did 25 non upgraded per attack.

 

Attackspeed, and all attacks are subject to change (balance) really. Blink is a very very great skill in this discussen that you perhaps forgot? Wanting to chance / create a new unit / abilllity when + 2 dmg on 1 unit and - 1 dmg on another unit could do the same is stupid. And do you really trust sites like scarmory??? lol.

 

What about using Archons against air? And I agree with the phoenix being unbalanced, but I don't care about that right now. Blizzard is knon for good balance, so you should discuss their abilities, attack type and roles if you want anyone from Blizzard to listen to you. Discussing if a unit should do 25 or 64 damage has no point, it was a different game with different units and damage balance will be just fine.

 

Thank you for clearing it out, you are much better at explaining in firm english than me Rmember, you only have 3 more posts left before you are gonna to make some nice tread

 

I was actually typing at the same time as you were, but it took me more time to finish my post. I'm not a really big fan of people awnsering one quistion 10 times. I broke my own rule there, but I really appreciate the compliment. -blushes - So, 999 posts... What now?

 

no.... The immortal wont be an air attack and WILL NEVER as long as he has that shield of his.
or but the idea of increasing the stalkers dmg vs AIR ONLY sounds nice. that or improving the Phoenix as it currently sucks. Even tho it vs other small air fighters is the most powerful right now. Its abilitys need to be changed. i skuggest that it gets an auto cause ability that allows it to attack multiple ships for a few seconds or doubles its dmg for a few seconds vs Large ships and has a good little could down.



ALSO that video is a horrible example. the first small battle was 2 carriers vs 4 BC's and then the mother ship ran from the BCs and the BC army got more men and continued to face roll the rest of the protoss army. The protoss made the wrong units. NEVER counter BC's with carriers. just mass Phoenixes and Void rays and you should be able to rip them well enough.

 

WHAT??? Protoss air doesn't need to be upgraded. That's terran air. The terran only have 3 units that can attack. Warp Rays can murder bcs. Phoenix, and other ground to air units can murder the viking. And any flying air unit can just destroy the banshee. If you upgrade the protoss, the game will go unbalanced, and the protoss will become the ultimate race. No one will play terran or zerg again.

 

Im not saying upgrade the air units infact they seem fine its just that small gap that i see for the protoss in terms of ata versus stuff like the battle cruiser.

Only thing I can think of is make the mothership non unique due to it being pretty much on par to the battle cruiser for one and 2 unique units belong in the campaign not multiplayer.

And the immortal thing was just a idea because when you see them standing around they move there cannons up and down.

 

yeah Bthammer45 i agree its odd u see there cannons moving up and down and but yet they cant hit air.

still if immortals could attack are there would be seriously balancing issues.

 

It will take many patches to make Starcraft 2 as balanced as Starcraft 1 is.

 

Regarding the video, the Carrier basically attack-moved against the BC. You never do that when you are using the Carriers. You have to hit and run and use the Carriers speed advantage over them. Even in SC1, if you attack move with the Carriers vs BC, BC will absolutely domintate the Carriers.

Dustin Browder mentioned that the Carrier got an increased range. According to SC2armory, the Carrier has a range of 12. That is basically the same range as a Siege Tank (13) !!!!!! In SC1, they only had a range of 8. BC only has a range of 6. That means Carriers attack range is twice the BC's and that means, with micro, the BC will never be able to touch the Carriers. Just think that an 8 range Carriers + micro owning BC in SC1. Now imagine a 12 Range Carriers, and you get the picture.

But I do agree on the issue regarding the Phoenix. I don't like anti-gravity on the Phoenix and I think that overload should be brought back one way or the other. Phoenix should be strictly an anti-air unit and from the looks of it, they don't look like they are any good at fighting other air units.

 

Personally I am fine with the anti-air as it is now. The Phoenix is fast firing so would be good on swarms, though I would like to see overload back. The void ray on the other hand is taylor made to crush high HP targets (buildings and BCs basicly). Stalkers perform much the way draggodns did, so there isn't m uch of a problem, I would be open to Immortals getting a short range GtA attack though, though archons would do decent damage, I never did like the knife fight range required.

It sounds like the carrier is better, which is good, so aat this point I don't see too much of a problem, so long as you keep them out of range of enemies they will be effective.

 

I agree with you, the anti-air is fine. If there is a problem with it. Blizzard will fix it.

 

...phoenix has no AoE attack or spells... HOW CAN IT BE GOOD VS. MASSED? unless u micro well and have several of them
i agree that immortals should have some sort of anti-air, but i dont really feel that it should be used like that. just want it to be able to fend off air units. maybe something like 9+8 (+1 per upg) vs. armor, according to Bthammer
then make the stalker 10+5(+2 per upg) vs armor
phoenix -> +3 vs bio per hit, so it becomes (10+3)x2
w/e i didnt even read that much

 

That's so they can fire up a cliff (if given vision).

"...phoenix has no AoE attack or spells... HOW CAN IT BE GOOD VS. MASSED? unless u micro well and have several of them"

I for one don't like the new phoenix.

 

... if they can hit stuff on cliffs, then they should be able to get far away enough for the angle of the cannon to hit an air unit.... *idea*
maybe make the range of the immortal's air attack 7, minimum would be 3, can be upgraded to 2

frankly what i dont really like about the immortal now is that it's attack is 10x2
i mean seriously! its supposed to break fortifications and destroy heavy-armored units
WHY 10x2 ?!?!?! unless the overall dps is faster, i see no reason

 

I heard that blizzard didn't give the immortal the ability to attack air units, is because it would over power the protoss. Don't ask how, that's what I heard.

 

Well dragoons where the main mobile anti air for protoss and because of blink the stalker seems gimped.