Noob Skillz: When to Expand

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by PhoenixRison, Aug 1, 2010.

Noob Skillz: When to Expand

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by PhoenixRison, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. PhoenixRison

    PhoenixRison Guest

    Okay so I'm working through the practice matches, and I've got some good base builds.
    When do i start looking to jump out an expand? I run lean on available minerals early game, committing to the nexus is a tough decision.

    What do I look for in terms of time in/development of base.

    1v1?
    2v2?

    Discuss

    Thanks!
     
  2. Tenshi

    Tenshi New Member

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    You want to know what your opponent is up to. Say it's PvP and you see that they're running 4 warpgates. That is NOT a good time to expand. When you see your opponent expanding you need to decide for yourself whether you can attack and win, or to expand yourself. What you don't want to do is fall behind in expansions and have nothing to show for it.

    I rarely get that far into a game because I usually just 4 gate rush. However, when I did I would always get a Robo up first so I could scout with an observer. Probably at around 30 is where I'd expand, but if you see your opponent is turtling like crazy (siege tanks, cannons, etc.) then grab it earlier. Remember that your main can handle 3 probes per mineral patch and assimilator. There's not really any point in expanding when your main can still take alot more probes.

    In the end it's all about adapting to your opponent.
     
  3. Makeahole

    Makeahole New Member

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    I agree with Tenshi, you have to let the game decide first and unless you have 24 probes pulling minerals you don't need think about expanding yet. Once you do saturate your fields though you do need to make the consideration of whether or not it’s doable at that point in time. If your opponents are out there sending rushes and keeping pressure on you it would be important to be able to protect any expansion you plan on getting as it always sucks to loose that 400 minerals if you can't keep it up once built. It also will make you look weak and will invite further attacks upon you.

    How well are your macro skillz? Do you consistently have a lot of minerals and gas lying around or are you constantly waiting on them so you can build the next whatever? If you can't macro 1 nexus and base properly you may want to rethink adding another.

    Point is you don't have to expand right away but you do need to have a plan unless you expect the fight to be over quickly. You don't want to be in a situation where you run out of anything and you will need the extra gas when you start teching into tier 2 and 3 if the game lasts longer then expected.

    Sometimes when I expand and I'm not sure whether or not I will be safe in doing so I'll spend some money to just lay a bunch of cannons around my expansion nexus enough where a small or medium group of units won’t bother with messing with it. If it does end up getting attack try to save as many probes as you can don't be donkey and let them just sit there and die.

    You can also accomplish scouting while planning on your expansion, send a probe out to a possible spot and let him sit there. When you are ready to build that other nexus your probe will be there and if something kills it you know your opponent is planning on expanding themselves ;)
     
  4. ZergFerguson

    ZergFerguson New Member

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    I think there are three kinds of expansions: (1) the advantage expansion, (2) the distraction expansion, and (3) the gamble expansion.

    The Advantage Expansion--This is when you think you have the advantage over your opponent and he can't stop you from expanding. You can expand (relatively) safely because there is nothing he can do about it. Examples of this kind of expansion are the Zerg early expand, expanding because your opponent overspent on static defense, expanding after a successful hold or attack, or expanding after you have teched to a specific unit that your opponent can't counter yet.

    The Distraction Expansion--This is when you expand while distracting your opponent. It is safe for you to expand because your opponent is distracted and won't know it. You distract your opponent with a direct assault (but be careful not to lose too many forces) or a harassment attack. Another example of this is expanding in response to an opponent's expansion, since you know they will be distracted by setting up their own defenses.

    The Gamble Expansion--Sometimes you just have to expand to make things interesting. It is not safe for you to expand, but you're going to do it anyway because you came to play. Gamble expansions can be particularly effective if they are in places unlikely to be scouted.
     
  5. ProtossZealot

    ProtossZealot New Member

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    I want to add 2 things to what the above posters stated,which I find correct.

    1)It is very important to be able to protect both your bases at once,if you expand.The most common way to do this is cannons/bunkers etc+ a mobile force going where the problem lie.
    I believe that you would be MUCH safer to expand if you have fleet.A fleet can protect you from virtually anything the enemy sends you if it is supported by some ground forces,and has the great advantage of MOBILITY.It is really a life saver.I usually build an early phoenix fleet,which is perfect for enemy harassment,base defense as well as pretty economic on minerals.

    2)If you really need to expand then there is always the option of making a base in a distant area of the map.Players tend to only explore near the enemy's main camp(except maybe for Terran who have the scan) leaving your base almost free to gather anything until mid-late game where the whole map becomes the battlefield.
    I know it's a gamble,but it has 60% chance to succeed.Any way it is always better to try something more desperate,than sit around doing nothing.
     
  6. TheSneak109

    TheSneak109 New Member

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    Before I expand, I always ask myself "Have I EARNED this expansion?" (unless it's an early expand lol).

    For example, in a 2v2, if my ally and I shut down a failed rush, we'll usually move the defense up a notch or w/e and I (being Zerg) would nab my expansion while he would build up some forces, with the theory that after my expansion is up I'll be able to produce a lot more units and catch up pretty quickly.

    OR if I manage to take out the mineral line of my opponents main with a zergling harass, then I'd usually grab an expansion as well. Again, you have to EARN your expansions.
     
  7. main49

    main49 New Member

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    I almost always expand after an early push. If it is a terran player that has walled themselves in, I'll expand then too. The close the natural is to my main, the earlier I expand as well. Might run with 1 base for awhile if its a map with a lot of space between the natural and your main base.