New Thor Suggestion (I think)

Hi Guys. So I got this kind of cool idea.

Its regarding the Terran Thor.

From what I understand/feel, this unit has lost its original concept (as a siege unit) and feels sort of misplaced as a gigantic anti-air unit? Anyone agree?

(get to the point already, well I’m getting there!)

I saw this artwork by “larcencil” and he has drawn the Thor similar in design to a Transformer. More like a huge robot mech, than a big cannon tower…
So here it comes.
Redesign the Thor. Give it a more “humanoid” build, similar to the one of the transformers in the last movie.
and here’s kicker… It could have a melee attack instead of firing its cannons!
So make it more agile, and give it an bashing attack, where Thor “fights” with its arms(think When Ripley fight the Queen in Aliens in an exosuit cargo-loader).
Maybe an ability (upgrade) called “Thor’s Hammer”
- The Thor charges his arm with electric current, slams it down to the ground, damaging nearby enemy units. Units are also slowed for a duration.


**lore part: what to do if a huge Ultralisk comes storming at you? Well I’ll tell you what… LIFT OFF YOUR BUILDINGS AND RUN!
No but seriously, the Terrans could have designed this unit as a melee tank. Making it able to take a lot of damage, and being able to stop larger units (Ultralisks and Colossi) from their advance.
**

Don’t know, it could be badass!
(And I know none of this is original from my part, just spreading the love)

Transformer fight scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMdPUkLLbME

 

It wouldn't really make sense to have the thor go melee (lore and gameplay wise).
Reason being is well....why hit your enemies with a giant hammer when you can blast them with rockets which is more powerful and versatile.

As for now, I'd rather the thor be an anti-air unit. The terrans were originally known for their ground power as well as air superiority (Valkyrie, wraths, goliaths, missle turrets, battleships).

Now they seemed to focus more on ground (tank, thor, helion, banshee).

I would agree that the thor deserves more HP (it had 300hp, now it has 400, but I think it deserves 700!) and more armor (come on, 1armor for this monster?). I don't like it's ability to rebuild itself, if it still has that ability. Rebuilding self seems to be more of the ability for smaller units.

 

It's hard enough to balance such a monstrosity while walking - it would be impossible to keep it in balance with its arms being swung, especially since the ends would need to be very durable and heavy. Also I think it'd look silly. Plus what Visom said - Terran have missiles and things, why would they make a late tier unit melee?

 

that would be too much like dreadnaughts in warhammer

 

Yep.
At least the Terrans no longer get owned by Dark Swarm anymore, and why would you have a melee unit? Metal is a lot weaker than psionic blades...

 

Yeah this's been suggested a fair few times before. It simply doesn't make sense to have such a massive melee unit, and especially for the Terran. You don't even see Protoss building massive melee constructs like this, and they're the ones who genuinely do have the tech to fight in melee combat.

Also, the Thor isn't pure Anti-Air. It's still got a very strong Ground-to-Ground attack.

 

well, the massive tree in warcraft was pretty cool. 20 tons of wood coming straight at your face!

 

Bit of a different situation there.

 

Damn… Thor doesn’t feel the love.

Dude! You’re concerned about the unit’s physical balance? In the game where they have a unit transforming into a plane. If you would be so kind and explain the process of that transformation to me?
Balance shouldn’t be an issue, and this is a sci-fi game. Anything is possible!

Warhammer… I know of it, don’t know it.
And besides, whatever is going on in that game, is it really relevant to this game?

Question: are psionic blades effective, when there is no one to wield them?
Answer: Please see the (very well done paint pictures down below)
side note: I think Dexter would be proud of the splatter.

But seriously why not? A HUGE mech unit storming at you, equiped with an melee siege attack, being able to halt larger units and creating chokepoints. So COOL!

 

About physical balance, he's right in that it's an important factor. Even the ranged Thor is pushing the boundaries at the moment. They're lucky they added all that reinforcements for Bombardment, but I don't think it uses them any more. Having such a top heavy model like that firing such large rounds in such large numbers would be so hard to balance, and they've just barely gotten away with it as is. Melee would just add so many more complications, it just wouldn't be effective. On a similar note, there's a reason that dropping Lifted Off buildings on units doesn't damage them. It's because it's just a given fact that they have enough time to get out of the way of such a slow falling collision zone. The same goes for the Thor. If it were to drop massive blocks like that, it's just a given fact that the units under it would be able to get out of the way. If it was just freefalling, there'd be even more problems, especially with lifting it back up again. It can either spend about five to ten seconds lifting up that same block and hoping to drop it in the same place, or it can simply blast round after round after round after round at its opponents.

About the Viking specifically, it's simply a personal walker with mini/gattling guns. It's not even close to anything of the Thor's magnitude. As for when it's actually transforming, it does that in the air, so the thrusters would have taken over by that stage, meaning it wouldn't be balancing. And again, for the transformation specifically, it's not firing or anything so wouldn't be subject to excessive recoil or anything.

About the Dreadnaught, it doesn't matter if the Dreadnaught's irrelevant to the Terran or not, but what does matter is if a massive melee mechanical construct is, which it's not.

Nice MS Paint art, but a weapon of that sort wouldn't come close to being as effective as a ranged mech. Giving a melee attack merely limits its potential.

 

That's where you're very much mistaken. Realism in the sense that the things depicted should be believable is quite a major factor in the development. Why will water splash? Why will huge units be slow and small ones fast? Because everything has to comply with the rules of physics. Seeing a huge mech swinging its arms effortlessly and without toppling over is nonsense.

 

i dont like the idea of a melee Thor.

atm the big anti air guns and the two tank cannons still is a awesome concept to me.

when i think of mechanized units i think of serious awesome ranged firepower, for me its more of WW2 tanks and artillery, i.e. Panzers, T-76s, and Sherman tanks.

when i think of a Tor i think of a huge unit which can devastate whole areas with "siege" firepower. so what it has on it now really appeals to me.

-Zerks

 

@Epo: that drawing was exactly what I was thinking as soon as I read the words melee thor, you would basically just need like 3 or 4 thors to blaze through an army of small claw/blade wielding units.

 

What I meant about the physical specifics not being important, was that this is a computer game, set in an imaginary future in which none of us can say, what is or what's not possible.
And regarding the Viking, I only used it’s transformation as an example of what is supposedly realistic.

I never suggested that the Thor was supposed to drop, or freefall, it’s “arms” on any unit. Of course it is supposed to aim for a target and with some kind of motion try to hit it! Secondly where on earth did you get the notion of dropping buildings on units? And thirdly slow falling? I can guarantee that a building does not fall through the sky slowly, nor does any object for that matter!

If you don’t like the idea of a melee Thor just say that, there is no need to add poorly thought trough arguments for why it would not be possible.

@Zerodown
My idea was never that the Thor would be so powerful that it could one-shot/one kill small units. I only made those images as a response to Arvendragon’s comment about psionic blades being superior to massive metal.

Thank you all for your time, thread closed.

 

Here's a piece of advice for the future: you don't misinterpret others' posts and lock the thread to deny people's ability to explain/clarify. That is if it's needed, because I know what Itza meant and they're relevant to the topic.

 

Actually we can say there's a fair bit on what's possible and what's not, because each team is unique because of the restrictions that Blizzard has based upon them. For example, you'll never see anything mechanical fighting for the Zerg, etc. The same applies here. You'll never see any kind of melee construct fighting for the Terran.

Vikings are not hyper-unrealistic, given the situation set by the Terran in StarCraft1, as these sorts of transformations are common among the Terran, the Siege Tank being a good example of another. Also, even things like the Marines' power suits are unrealistic, although within their given conditions, being that of the Terran, they're not, unlike the melee Thor which, even under those same conditions, is still unrealistic.

I was judging by your MS Paint art, but even if it does aim or move, the same problem still applies.

Ever heard of Lift Off? As I've already said, there's a reason that deploying Lifted Off Terran buildings on units doesn't harm them. They don't drop down hard or everything inside would be destroyed.

Well I hope that's cleared things up for you then. It's really not that hard to follow.

 

Im still advocating that Thor should be scrapped or should be change drastically. There is not strategical advantage in building a thor IMO. A simple hit and run tactic or just a couple of immortals can probably take down a thor easily.

 

^well, a couple of immortals will destroy a base guarded only by siege tanks quickly as well, you should have a mix of units to stop direct counters.

With the picture you painted, it would be like stepping on a bee with the psi blades, wouldn't last much hits against zealots with those blades, not to mention the actual impact.

besides, why have an expensive mech getting right up close to the fight where it can easily be swarmed when you have one with artilery pounding the enemy from range?

This really does not fit in with the starcraft terran feel, terran are known for range and versitility.

 

I don't see why it should any more than any other unit in the game. About 'simply' taking it down, you're way off. Firstly, the Thor doesn't have such a slow turning circle any more, so hit and runs won't be as effective. Secondly, Thors will still pose a huge threat to Immortals. At the moment they deal ten damage, plus ten to Armoured units, four times each attack. Sure, the Immortal is an Armoured unit so the bonus damage won't apply, but a single Thor will still be dealing forty damage to the Immortal each attack. Thirdly, and probably most importantly, who the **** would only have a single Thor? One, Thors aren't anything like a super unit, so will be used in numbers, and two, they'll always have other troops backing them up. Even if a couple of Immortals could take down a Thor, why would the Thor/Thors be on their own? If the Terran player doesn't have other units backing it up, especially when playing against Protoss of all races, they deserve to die.

 

Epo, actually I quite like ur idea. However since Terrans are primary range attackers, ur ideas doesn't fit at all. It's cool to have a tank with melee damage but I rather have a long range attacker. Mebbe ur idea will work for UED units instead....Dun give up hope just becoz of some criticism ...Surely someone will like it...

To further add on, I would like to stress that imho, the Thors are close to perfect. It should have decent ground damage with powerful anti air capabilities. However based on the recent stats, their air damage is only 4 vs 4. I hope that its air damage could at least be 8 vs 4. The reason being that currently since Terrans do not have a dedicated ATA unit with the exception of Vikings, the Thor should be a strong counter to all air units including Carriers, Mothership and a pack of Mutalisks.

The Terrans oredi have adequate ground attacks with the siege tanks accompanied by marines, vikings, reapers n etc..Therefore the Thors must be a strong anti air unit..And abt the identitiy crisis, just leave it as being practically useful is more important than satisfying the lore or making them more unique..