New CnM Map

So I came in here asking for help, and voila! Thanks to much help from people I have the 1.0 version ready... however, I've only been able to test p1. Meaning I have no clue if the cat trigs work, or if trigs involving multiple mice work (saving trig). Feel free to test it out . I'll try to get my router working... if I can do that then a few people to help me out would be cool =).


-Pandemic



EDIT: Oh, and I doubt that anybody's heard of my before, but my in-game name's Shadowless21, and I play mostly on the US East server. And it would be nice if BeBoy would hop in here real quick and share some of his mad skillz ;O


OLD POST:

Um, after writing all this I realized what a huge block of text this is XD. If you don't feel like reading it all then just skip down to the What I need help on section, please...

Ya, I know that there's 50 million CnM maps out there... but I like to think that this one may be worth something.

It's only about 60% done, and unplayable (as I've yet to set Victory / Defeat triggers), but I was wondering if you guys had any advice for me.

Most of the ideas come out of my own head, but it's probably based the most off of BeBoy's series of Jungle maps.

If you can understand the triggers (um, good luck with that ), then it should make more sense... but if you're to lazy to de-crypt by chaotic triggers (heck, I would be if I didn't know what was where XD), there here's the jist of the map:
1. In the bottom left, Mice players select where the wish their mouse to be spawned
2. They have 20 seconds to start setting up a base, then cat is released
3. Commence normal CnM game!

What's different:
1. The one thing I hate about BeBoy's maps is the whining idiots who do nothing but scream at you to save them... highly annoying. I'm planning on adding a Bound for the captured mice, and if they are able to complete it then the cat is warned, and they are released in 5 seconds
2. The other main problem I've had with BeBoy's map is that all the mice spawn in the same place... lots of feeding going on. I'm planning on, when freed, they are randomly spawned at once of the spots that they originally spawn at (or maybe they select if with their DT... dunno yet).
3. And the other main difference is the Vespian Gas. Basically it's a 1:3 ratio for it (gas:minerals). I'm hoping that it'll add a more strategic element to the game; more minerals, less protection, or less minerals more protection?
4. Trapping Buster! Basically the Cat can teleport (randomly) to any of the spawning locations. Hopefully it'll stop the cats who leave because of being trapped.

What I need help on:
1. Um, never made a Bound before. Help...?
2. I need help with my Mouse Death trigger... it works fine, up to a point. Everything goes correctly, including placing the flag on the beacon, but then it just randomly dies. Pretty sure it's tied to the "Kill all any unit belonging to current player in area field" trigger... but no clue how to fix it. Help?
3. I've been unable to test the Cat at all... would my "randomization" (a flying critter ) work?
4. Hyper triggers. They confuse me... a lot >=\. I understand the concept, but no clue how to impliment them... or if it's worth re-triggering my whole map to add them.

 

ok, first advice. DONT USE HYPERS.
If you use hypers then you wont be able to use any "wait" trigger, and you'r probably gonna use em.

I think that can be somehow rigged.. plus, why would you tell the cat if he cant tell where the mouse's going.
Maybe instead of freeing the mouse just give em some minz? till someone does (free him).

I'd say less minz more protection just cause i like it that way

Im to lazy to dl the map and check it right now.. maybe later?
lol, i hope I've helped a lil bit.

 

CnM is a great map to start off with and learn how to trigger..

Basically, you'll learn that the conditions must never be overlapped. Be as specific, yet efficient as possible.

For your flag one, if you use kill all any unit, then it kills all any unit. If you want only the mouse (probe) or flag to die, then use "Kill Probe" instead of flag
You can also use "Kill 'men' ", which kills all non-powerups/buildings/beacons...

Bounds are not a very good way to start off mapping because it steps into the Hyper Trigger realms, and ... honestly, bounds are boring now. I'm not gonna tell you how to make a bound, cause you can open bound maps and see how they did it, but I can tell u the concept.

Have several locations.. lets say loc 1,2,3... You want a sweeping explosion effect.
Condition: --
Action:
Create 1 (unit.. determines the explosion) at loc 1
kill all men at loc 1 for all players
Wait x milliseconds
Create 1 unit at loc 2
kill all men at loc 2 for all players
wait x milliseconds
create.. etc.
Preserve trigger

Get it now? It's really simple.. If u want a pattern then you just do it accordingly

Now Hyper Triggers. They are simply a set of triggers that make ALL PRESERVED TRIGGERS have VERY LITTLE Re-fire time....
Think of Penguin wars.. there's 1 trigger that says
"Condition: Always
Action: Create 1 zealot"
1 zealot gets created... 1 second pasts before the next one is created.

However, if a set of hyper trigs were put in the map
then the zealots will get created VERY quickly. (~1/12 of a second)

For your map, it is unecessary. For bounds, it is sometimes necessary, but using wait triggers is fine.

The reason for Hyper trigger is that it gets rid of all the delays in triggering, which can dramatically affect gameplay. For sucessful bounds, you'd need hyper triggers
HOWEVER, beware that Hyper trigs and Wait trigs don't mix. Never put them under the same player.
Put all your bounding trigs in one player, and all hyper trigs in another. If you put them together, then they will BOTH screw up.
Plus, wait trigs have a tendency to screw up once u have hyper trigger for no obvious reason...

A better way to do this is use Deathcounts... but i think you shouldn't learn about this until you really need to.. so i'll save that for later.. if u want a tutorial on DC's, go to www.staredit.com -> tutorial -> deathcounts.. and erm i dunno if there's a tut on this forum for DC's. :C sowi

 

Wow, fast replies .

And I never thought of giving the cat money until the mice were saved... that may be interesting.

And sweet, I really don't feel like learning anything that I don't need to know XD.


On a completely unrelated note...

What does the "preserve trigger" action do? I thought it kept it repeating (like, triggers were a one-time-only things), but I don't think so anymore... I think they just keep repeating the same action over and over? Anyway, if you could explain exactly what it does that would be nice.

And another random question. I think that you can name different areas the same name... does the editor consider them the same area? Like, can you make 4 boxes around an object, name them all "loc1", then say "kill all any unit in loc1" and it'll kill everything but the stuff inside that box? (If that makes sense...) Or do I have to do what I've been doing (setting it up for every... single... one...)?


-Pandemic

 

When a trigger is completed, it ussually dissapears. However, If it has a preserve trigger it doesnt. Now, if you have a trigger with condition allways and a preserve trigger in it's actions, it will loop forever.. maybe that's your problem?

The editor has its own way to identify locations, so it wont matter if you name 4 locations "cheese", you'll have to trigger all 4 of them separatly. Naming things the same way will only help to confuse you

EDIT: If you want the same condition to kill all inside all the locs at the same time, just do locations named (for example) cheese1, cheese2, cheese3, etc. Then on the trigger copy the "Kill all units for every player at cheese1" and change the "cheese1" for "cheese2".
That would only take a second

 

No... the trigger is:
CONDITIONS:
Player "current player" has suffered "exactly 1" deaths of "Mouse".
ACTIONS:
Kill all "any un
it" for "current player" in area "field"
Move "1" "selector" for "current player" at "anywhere" to "DT Storage"
Move "1" "Flag" for "current player" at "flag storage" to "Mice Flag"

For some reason it kills the flag after it spawns on the beacon (Mice Flag). Dunno why...

And I was also wondering if the "exactly 1" part would make the trig stop working after one death? Or would the fact that it spawns a new mouse negate that?

Ya... that's how I've been doing it. Oh well :dull:.

-Pandemic

 

FASHWA!

About 90% done now =3. Have to create a saving system, fix the flag problem, then just test certain things... mostly cat stuff.

The major problem I may have is in this trig:
CONDITIONS:
- Current player has suffered exactly 1 deaths of Mouse
ACTIONS:
- Kill all any unit for current player at field
- Most 1 selector for current player at flag storage to mice field

I'm having 1 problem with it, and am thinking that I'll have a few others...
- The problem I'm having I've already said... the flag killing thing. No clue how to fix that.
- The other problem I think I'll have is with the "exactly 1" part. Will this trigger stop working for the second time a mouse dies?
- And the last problem is with repeating this trigger. Will it magikally disapear after the first mouse dies, or will it keep working? Do I need a preserve trig?


Anyway, I'm happy that this map will be done XD. Should be ready for testing this weekend, if anybody's interested. Assuming my router is willing to coperate... freaking thing randomly decided to start cutting off my SC games. Even if it isn't up I could at least upload it here... if anybody's willing to test. So ya, if anybody's interested just gimme a shout


-Pandemic


EDIT: Double posting is bad enough, and I really don't wanna triple post XD. I think it's pretty much complete... at least, I can't get any further without testing with other people .

Well ok, that's a lie. I can't find a trigger for revealing the whole map... can you tell me how to do that?

But other then that I really can't do anything else . If you want I'll upload the map... but *looking around in edit mode* I don't think I can upload a new file when editing...

 

I KNOW WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS
But Im not telling till you get me some cookies...

nah, just kidding.
The thing is, you need to reset the death count of the mouse. Otherwise, it will still have 1 kill and it will keep killing anyunit.

Your trigger should be something like this

That SHOULD solve it.
If it still does not work, post what happens

about map revealers.. If you want em to see all the map at all times, use map revealers..
If you just want to show em the terrain, use Fog of War. They'r not triggers tho. Map revealer is a unit, and fog of war a layer. Which editor are you using? Try to look for the fog of war, if you cant find it, ask here.. remember it's a layer, so it should be someplace around units/terrain/doodads/etc

 

I'm using SC X-Tra editor, in Special Mode.

And I definitely never knew about that trigger... Thx much.

Can't think of anything that I have yet to do... so here's the 1.0 version of the map, if anybody cares to test it. I'll try to get my router working so I can get on BNet by tomorrow, but with school and such I dunno if that'll actually happen.


-Pandemic


And as an after thought... how do you edit the beginning brief? I know how you edit objectives, but the scrolling words I have no clue how...


EDIT: And although this map doesn't have it... ya, all I had to do was click around on the Fog of War layer, and place a revealer unit . Oh, and, *gives cookie to Lombar* YAY COOKIES! =3


I really need to organize my thoughts before I post :/. Last thing I need help on; how do you keep probes/SCV's from building certain buildings?

 

I recommend using SCMDraft 2.0 for future projects. Its more advanced, but can be pretty confusing.

Anyways, there is a option for "Place Map Revealers For Player".
It spaces map revealers out prefectly, so that all of the map is shown.

Anyways, go to the Unit and Buildings section. Press "Disable Unit" or something like that. The building/unit will NOT be trainable, but still can be pre-placed or placed with triggers.

EDIT: I REALLY don't want to double-post, so...

REVIEW: 2/5
I really didn't like the terrain. Twilight terrain with square tile TICKS ME OFF!
JK. Can I have a cookie or a piece of pie?

Anyways the mice needed a LOT more units. It's pretty hard, and one thing I would prefer is more varied terrain. Also, there aren't enough units, and what's with the empty space.

Yeah it's pretty hard as a mark, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

mKays, I'll try that. I'm only using X-Tra editor because when I was browsing through editors it looked like a decent one XP.

Mark? What do you mean? Your review? I prefer a tough review to a release of a bad map =D.

And ya... I was pretty much expecting a bad review =). But... can you elaborate on "It's pretty hard"? What's hard, exactly?

And I'd be glad to add more units... if I had any ideas :cute:. Give me sooooooome! And I'll add them =).

And the empty space is there for mouse expansion... although I could probably add something to make it more interesting. I need at least 1 buffer row for my whole teleporation system... but I may be able to get rid of 2 horizontal rows =D.


On another note, did you get to test out the cat any? I was only able to test p1, and that's a mouse x_x. I have no clue if ANY of the cat trigs work...


-Pandemic


oh, and, *gives cookie*. Pies are so fail . But cookies are pro . Thx for actually taking a few minutes to review a nubs map

Oh, and somebody needs to adjust the image restrictions =(. I can't put in all my smilies D=

 

lol... I have to say.. that you're REALLY newbie to this.
A preserve trigger is a trigger that fires whenever the conditions are met.
It is used in almost all triggers nowadays, because in ur actions you could've changed ur condition.. and another trigger will change the condition back to the original...
A great example:
Let's play a "Racing" game where you race marines...
You want it so that Only 1 marine can be teled from loc 1 to loc 2... A few marines will be present and would want to tele to loc 2.... After the game, everything has to be reset, so they can race again, using the same locations:

trigger1:

Condition:
Current player bring at least 1 marine to loc 1
Switch 1 is cleared
Action:
Move 1 marine from loc 1 to loc 2
Switch switch 1 to set
Preservetrigger

This makes it so that the next marine cannot be teled.
Now to reset

Trigger 2:
Condition: GAME RESET!
Action:
Set Switch 1 to clear
Preserve trigger

This then allows the location to be used again.. n there u have it

Start learning the basics by copying other people and try stuff yourself... but you're really really newbie .. there are good tutorials in www.staredit.com (and here i think) that can teach you the basics ^.^

btw.. newbie not in a noob way.. Noobs don't try at all... .. let's change it to "novice"

 

Heh, I'm one of the few people who knows the difference between "nub", "newb", and "noob", so it's all good . And ya... I've only made maps using the BFME2 editor... a world apart from the SC editors o_x.

And, um, I kinda got the preserve trigger trigger... but uh, what's a switch? o_o. I've seen them before, but I have no clue what they actually do... Not to be all nub, but can you explain what they do, exactly?


-Pandemic

 

what's the diference between nub and the rest of em?
noob is hopeless
newb tries to get better
nub doesnt know how to write?

 

A Switch is a variable that can only have 2 values applied to it: True or False. (In Starcraft, this is usually called Enabled or Disabled).

This means that when something happens in game, a switch can become "Set" or True. This is useful because then we can branch off many other triggers with the condition "Switch." This condition says if switch is <SET or CLEARED> (depending on which you choose) the action of the trigger will be performed. Switches make large webs or trees of triggers much easier to organize.

 

So a switch in SC is like a boolean operator? I'll have to play around with that...

And a "nub" is exactly like a "newb", only cuter =D. Normally has "lil" in front of it... like "you're such a lil nub =P"


-Pandemic


EDIT: OMG AMAZING!

Lol, finally downloaded Draft 2.0... freaking amazing :O. And... and... AND... AND.....

TEXT!

Do you know what this means?

That's right... COPY / PASTE, FTW!!!!

:twitcy: :twitcy: :twitcy: :twitcy:

Happy much =D

 

ya scmdraft is pretty good.

 

GOGO starforge go!

...so when can we expect a download link for this?

EDIT: lulz, might help to check the first post... first, nvm.

 

lol so hows the SC crew gettin along? i havnt been on at all really.. i bought Spore. and yea....... im makeing SC stuff on it lol I made a battle cruiser a Ling and ima try to make an Ultra

 

Uh, if you're talking about my map don't download the first link o_x. That one's like, days old...

Here's the latest version. Pretty much finished... as a 1.0 anyway. I think all the trigs are working... but I've only been able to check them with 1 mouse. Meaning I have no clue if anybody other then p1 works, or if the saving trig works, or if any of the cat trigs work...

But ya, until I can fix my router I won't be able to test any of that, so here's the newest version that will be the newest for a bit .


-Pandemic



Oh, and updated the link on the first post.