Lair = UNFAIR!!!

Okay so probably by now we have all been updated of the new tech tree of our swarm, and as I was curiously investigating various structures and units ive come to noticed a very disturbing matter particularly about the zerg lair. If you havent noticed yet, base on the tech tree, the lair will be the most busiest and crucial structure for everything that will make or break a zerg player... Of course before I noticed that fact, I also first considered the purpose of zerg which generally dictates to be numerous and fast... So to generalize what im saying, the problem ive noticed here is that the lair almost does all the needed units and structures for the entire swarm as compared to the hive and hatchery where all you can do is almost nothing... In this, I'll discuss 3 pharagraphs for 3 conflicts of each techs...

HATCHERY (early) - the very basic of all zergery, as of now seems to be getting a bit less functional at this moment looking at its spawnable units to create, a player can only choose the zerglings for standard units and besides that the only ones left are Overlords, Drones, and the Queen(w/c is a dedicated defender) and what is the problem here? What about\ the other races which have a plenty of choice to choose which unit will they finish the zerg with during tier 1 taking advantage of having only the queen and zerglings as the battle units.. Thats definitely a ranged advantage. I first thought that the roach will be within the production of the hatchery but being moved to tier 2 thats definitely again, another conflict with the hydra.. (after all those differentiating anouncements it would just end as again a players cup of tea for his inevitable defeat) How this will effect the game is tremendously very defining as a zerg player will definitely need to have an early lair just to cope for its lackness of unit choices thus limitting the probability of an early successful expansion.....

LAIR (mid)- now were talking zerg here... first lets define how many structures and units that are availed during this tier level. Done yet?? So if youve noticed we got 8 structures (spore col, sunken col, banelings nest, roach den, hydralisk den, spire, nydus warrens, and ifestors pit - cool we get to have defense, transport, caster, detector, more units wooooooo) and 9 new available units NINE!!!! (im not writing them anymore coz ive decided to attach the image so look at it) And what does this mean?? Simple, zerg is doomed... hahahaha.. Some may look at it as an enormous goodness packaged into one tier but some like me ^_^ definitely say that it is very confusing the point of being zerg at all now seems deminishing if from the start they cant even handle their own. If ill base this on what the other races has got, im really sure that the zerg will have no chances of holding down rushes from terrans and protoss if massed, and another is that the general picture of this will look like the zerg is trying to catch up just to cope its less comings from the hatchery w/c of course again dissiminates the meaning of the name Z.E.R.G stands for... The various openings and multiple unit choices will probably confuse 80% of all the new players of the swarm out there having diffiiculty to which optimize first between those 9 NINE!

HIVE (late) - okay to generalize this one we have 3 new structures for avail and same as 3 new zergs to use as 1st being the Ultralisk (splash-tanker), 2nd the swarm guardian (siege spammer) and the most very intriguing and heartbreaking Lurker (hideous monster) w/c In Every Zerg Players opinion should be the very most deserving unit to go up to an earlier tier than at the last stage whrein at most times the game is almost over or just taking too long... The problem at the hive here is a question of the pros and cons of having only those units at serve. Personally, Im willing to trade the corrupters slot in tier 2 to make the lurker go back at tier 2.5 and if that cant be done, I just want to have justice for the lurkers being almost at the pointless stage from this moment..
If ever theyll edit the Lurker it has to define something which will make it worth being send that far behind that will make a good excuse or reason for him why do we need him at all comparing with the ultralisks and s.guardians.

As a general zerg player Im quite disturbed right now as to where this is all going along, everything looks so messy, In fact my whole thread is so messy LOL but ill leave the answers to you as to what suggestions you propose or what do you say about the recent adjustments from the tech tree.

NOTE: This will be my last post for now as I'll be leaving for a while with no guarantee of open communication for various things like these, but even so Im glad that Id had a good time here in SC2Forums and for that I thank you. Im just sad that I probably wont be back yet during the time that Viva la France is over.. Anyway I'd like to say it has been great hanging with you all members here. Im not even in a position to say something emotional like these lol coz i dont have anything to be proud of besides that medal that you can see beside my name LOL ill probably lose that 1 but ill be back in 30 days so whoever picks my medal...... I'll be bacl!!!! Asta la vista hahaha
see yah me friends... Im gonna blow myself for the overmind!!

 

I've never had a problem fending off an early rush with enough zerglings. This just means that instead of popping out hydra den before lair, it's reversed. I'm going to just make things less complicated and hope that prices for things stay the same in SC2. Lair is only what...50 more gas than den? If you get rushed and killed before you can get 100 gas to upgrade, you were probably going to lose that match anyways don't cha' think?

Sure, zerg is no longer the high threat of KO'ing you in 5 minutes like they were before, but once the games hits about eight minutes...watch out. I will still be a devout zerg player in SC2 despite this news about the lair.

 

I'm no zerg player, and i don't claim to know abotu half the things for the zerg fighting force, but this seems to me like it leaves a wide range of strategies to be unlocked. It still looks pretty balanced, and with all the new units, other zerg players are no doubt excited, too. I think the roach should be in the first tier, it's a good addition to any force, but it could be just a little too strong for that kind of theing, with its health regenerating so damn quickly xD

Since SC2 is still developing I'd say just the give them some time to balance things out. I'm sure they know what they're doing and if not, they'll change things =3

 

it could be wrong...that tech tree...
=]

 

there going to push back sukens......Thats not far that zer g dont have a defence early enough to prevent a rush...

 

imho, i dont believe that tech tree, unless Blizzard, confirms it themself, i will continue to believe that the colonies are built be the Queen at Tier 1 area, and the Roach Den is a Tier 1.5 building, not in the Tier 2 area, in fact this is a slightly different thech tree from the last one i saw, and it says the the Creep Trumor and the Shriekers are still im the game, while the Creep Trumors might be, i am very sure that the Shriekers are not anymore.

 

I miss drones planting themselves on the creep to create the protective shell for the morphing building underneath. Zerg now build their defenses by the queen just standing there and creating a wriggling ball out of nowhere.

I say give the buildings to the drones and make the queen double their damage.

ps that tech tree says there are 5 defensive buildings... that's obviously bogus

 

I dont really mind the change, but it would be nice to see the roach lower on the tech tree. Unlikely, but nice.

 

Hydras in tier 2 is good as they are now...IMO but lurkers in tier 3 is oddly confusing i think they should be at 2.5 :\

Also the choices between the units highly different, you could go for the hydras for good attacking range and strong firing power with the infesters a helping hand or you could have mutas/corrupters or roaches with infesters or even suicidal crazy green cabbages that kill people is also a good choice, the Hive to me is a evolution upgrade for buildings and higher tier units

 

man blizzard better get to work, they got about a week left....

 

I would prefer that either

1. The Roach moves down to 1.5 tier
or
2. The Roach and Hydra switch positions on the tech tree with a possible buff to the Roach and a nerf to the Hydra.

As of now the Roach is overshadowing the Hydra badly. They're still the only Zerg GtA unit, but it's just not enough to justify a 100/100 cost even with a buff. IMO the Roach fits better on tier 2 than the Hydra, since the regeneration rate is going to be much more useful than a longer range and damage.

 

I couldn't agree more. They need to put the Hydralisk/Lurker back where they work best. >=\

 

but we know that they dont want us to go back to the same strats. as before, so thats highly unlikely going to happen.

 

there won't BE any strats with a tier 3 lurker. That's when everyone has detection.

 

i know T.T, my poor, poor Lurkers wont be used that often at Tier 3. it would need some dramatic changes to make it even a viable choice, but the only way that i can think of, without repeating everyone else as much(hopefully), that would make Lurkers Tier 2 again but keep the Roaches is that we get rid of the Hydralisk by making the lore said that the Hydralisk evolved into the Roaches, making it that we Morph Lurkers from Roaches, OR somehow all the Hydralisk stopped being a viable gene, and now the Lurker will be able to be made with out evolving from a Hydralisk.

BUT i know that most people will be glaring( or will kill ) at me for suggesting such a thing *looks at Remy*

even if we make the Lurker at Tier 2 it would overlap with the Banelings role. both being an anti-melee and swarming unit, making it that you would only make Banelings to take out enemy buildings.

they are doing their best to make us use different strat. but also keeping the old units useful as well.


WHY BLIZZ.? WHY? WHY are you torturing us with these changes to the zergs race?

 

What did you expect? I hate saying this, but this is Starcraft 2. Just because the Zerg is different from before it doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't know what they're doing. They're professionals, and very good ones at that. Let them do their thing. If things change a lot, oh well. But as long as it plays well, it doesn't really matter.

As for the Lurker, why do you think it's a tier 3 unit if it's useless? It's been there since the Zerg demonstration, so that would mean it belongs in tier 3 and it's useful. It might not sound useful at first, but hell, has anyone here actually played the thing? Of course not. Same goes for the Hydra. I don't like it either, but they must be a lot more useful than we think since they haven't changed too much since we saw them.

 

^
i was about to say what this man said. What a champ.
lets just wait fellows. I know speculating is alright...but lets jsut wait =]

 

I think that the animation difference between the hive and hatchery are weak sauce... also this tech tree would def need some getting use to.

 

I cant see the problems with the Lair, the midgame has always been key for Zerg. No GG without mutalisk/lurkers.
On the other hand, I dont like the build right now, for a few reasons:
GOod infestor use will make the early infestor a bit imba, lets be a lategame thingy like defiler, so it can be really strong.
Hydras should be non Lair TIer why?
- Stupid to have lurkers when you already have ultralisk, no good rushes because everyone already have detectors
- If hydras are more powerfull (acording to Blizzard) lurkers need to be too, and thats not the swarming concept

But what about Roaches then will you probably ask!
My answer: I dont know!
Roaches are a kind of tank, so in lategame they would overlap with ultralisks, and hydralisks are good against them in big numbers, and I just made the hydralisk earlier Tier, so whats the solution:
- Cut the Roach
or
- Let it stay ingame

I like the 2. because perhaps it will not be used in MMU, but it will be usefull against zealots etc.
So let the Roach be another choice instead of hydralisks:

Tier 1:
Zerglings, Hydras, Roaches
Tier 2:
Mutalisks, Lurkers, The other air unit I forgot the name of, Nydus Worm, Baneling (baneling early is stupid when you have so many choices)
Tier 3:
Gaurdian, Infestor, Ultralisk

What do you think about this build? Its 13 units with Overlords and Drone (queen is all stages so not included), and its a good balance with 5 - 5 - 3
In old starcraft (queen not included) it was: 4 - 2 (but the key units (mutas in ZvZ and ZvT, lurkers in ZvT and ZvP) - 4

Greetings Furrer, dont think Ill reply, I havent posted in a lot of time, but Ill try to post sometimes.
PS: Please add a "furrers build" option at the poll, I want to vote too!
PSS: Most of my choices have been taken because of these reasons:
- Zerg are a swarm, so not too many strong units (super-hydras super-lurkers)
- Roach etc. need to stay, because Zerg always had many counters for the same treat
and not because I want SC 1.5
PSSS: check out www.youtube.com/TheTrueBlueSC , he has some good sc2 vods where he commentates (very new vods where savior playes (not older than a month).
PSSSS: Im open to new ideas, and BLizzard will probably figure it out, Im just given my 2 cents and (!) DONT REPLY WITHOUT READING IT ALL!

 

There are only guesses as to when StarCraft2 will come out for all we know i could be several months before it comes out
Oops
I was talking about an earlier post