Lack of Originality

I've played the beta for about a month and a half now. I'm coming to find that a lot of players aren't original anymore. I usually get destroyed with mass voids or mass carrier or mass air in general. I never get a player who uses a solid strategy anymore. I think its kind of depressing that such a great game as Starcraft has become a "who has a bigger stick game."

What are your thoughts?

 

If you're not defending against mass air, then using mass air against you is a great strategy. Usually by the time someone can actually build that many air units it's late in the game and you could have adequately prepared by: 1. harassing to disrupt their production; 2. taking out their expansions; 3. massing up antiair - since you're Terran that'd be like marines, missile turrets, and vikings. Spells like EMP Shot can also really help by taking out their shields. Mass marines are especially great against void rays that have lost their charge up.

 

I've also noticed most players are going all-air or almost all-air. Kind of annoying for my terran since I love using tanks/marine. In most 2v2 someone always seems to go only air, I've won a few with us just going Viking/Ray or Viking/Muta.

Not really much they can do to nerf it without making air almost useless as an individual unit, stacking is what's making air powerful.

 

I have noticed that 90% of protoss go mass Rays.. Lately I have been using warp prism and warping in 4 dts asap.. nobody gets detection ( I'm in platnium league too! ) and its a pretty fun strat.. I actually got called a tool for doing this and I replied "At least I didn't void rush right?" and he just left

 

My only complaint along these lines in 2v2 ladder games on Twilight Fortress. That map seems to inevitably turn into a mass fest far too often, usually an air mass fast due to the size of the map and need for mobility.

As a Zerg player I'm disadvantaged in that sort of mass air fight, but my primary complaint isn't being disadvantaged so much as nature of the map in the first place.

I would like to see some sort of change to that map. Even something simple, like taking out the naturals inside the starting area.

 

first of all stalkers, hydras all own rays

and you gave him way too much time if he massed up air

 

You mistake the meaning of my post. I know how to counter it...I'm just disappointed that that is all I see anymore. I had a few unlucky games and got stuck in copper league for 1v1, and that is all I see. I'm getting bored with having to do the same strategies. I don't feel that I have any room to grow and learn new ways to counter something if I don't encounter any other strategy.

EDIT: It's pretty bad. From the time I started the topic, I have had three people mass void me. I won two of the three but thats another story...

 

I play Protoss, and when I fight Terran players who go for mass vikings I just use some immortals...

it works great. Noob strategy or are they just missing something?

 

Well on the plus side if you consistently see that strategy in copper and consistently counter it, hopefully you'll rack in the wins and be promoted soon. It's natural to go for mass air in copper because so few people build anti air, it works really well and it's easy. Also void ray got its range nerfed in Patch 13.

 

I'm in silver and even there most go mass air eventually.

 

You'll see it less and less as you get into better leagues. In gold 1v1 you almost never see mass air until really late in the game.

 

Counters to void rays:
Mass stalker with blink.
MMM or MM or M or Vikings
Hydras or mutas

Counter to vikings:
I didn't know they needed a counter.

Counter to carriers:
Expand and rape.

Counter to mutas:
Phoenixes archons stalkers sentrys storms etc. etc. etc. etc.

I don't see how this game isn't diverse. In Starcraft 1 people would much do the same builds and strategies every game. From a novice perspective it seemed really redundant and uninteresting, but of course there are like 20 ways to get a handful of zealots. Precise build order /is/ part of strategic diversity. Not only that but there actually are tons of strategies a player can use. Lots of interesting ones too. Be innovative. I've seen plenty of interesting things. I think this game has incredibly diverse strategies. I mean I couldn't really begin to list all the different things you can try.

If your opponent's keep doing the same thing then just keep killing them.

 

As Zerg player I usually win only when my opponent goes Air. If they decide to go land (colossi, HT, Tanks, MMM) I have no chance.

 

I only play 2v2, and almost always one person decides to just mass air and relies on their ally for early defense.

Stalkers tend to fall like paper mache before rays. Sure they are cheaper but if you blink into a group of rays that are lvl2 from raiding your base, your will lose many more Stalkers than he loses rays. And don't even bother warping in a few at a time and try defending, 3 rays will kill 5 stalkers in a matter of seconds.

I've done mass vikings in 2v2 before and just starve the other team because the mobility of the viking allows me to snipe any expansion they try to get, and if they defend it I can try sniping tech in their main base. I can also just simply go back into air mode and fly away if I see his army starting to approach. IMO the viking is a lot better at this late-game role than any other terran air unit for its cost effectiveness.

Carriers are pretty brutal if you dont have enough AA to deal with them, so expanding when you see he has the Fleet Beacon is pretty pointless if you dont have the facilities to amass AA in time, not to mention that he likely has a few rays out before he gets carriers. That and the interceptors mess with the AI if you aren't careful.

Vikings seem to do well against mutas when in relatively even numbers, especially once I start getting upgrades. Other than that, marines are the only other cost effective unit the terran can get to try and hold them off. Turrets can be useful for stalling, but at 100 min each, they're expensive to set a perimeter around the base with and fall rather quickly against a group of massed mutas.

 

Since when has sc not been a "who has the bigger stick" game - especially late game? If you want a game based on micro, go play wc3, or keep a constant pressure on your opponent... What else would you have the game be?

I can't remember the last time I saw mass air at the platinum level... most games are over before it's possible. Anyone who thinks that a VR rush is OP, 1v1 - let's see if you can even get a stargate. I'm tired of hearing about how 'imba' they are.

Agree! I've done this, it's fun.... DTs get ~20-30 kills each before they're caught... that's quite cost effective.
________
Yamaha maxim XJ750

 

I'm not saying that it is "imba." I don't think that anyone on this topic has spoken about imbalance. We are just saying how horribly overused it is...

 

I just don't see it happening. Stalkers are going to annihilate void rays. 25 stalkers will come into 12 void rays and take them out really fast. And you're going to have more than 25 stalkers against 12 void rays too. If they go void rays they are going to have to invest in defense or you're going to kill them fast, so you're already ahead in economy.

 

Very true....

I play Terran...and I play a few late game strategies more than I should. If I notice nothing happening while playing a Toss player...then I start to immediately prepare for a VR rush. Usually a sizeable force of marines with some marauders tucked in for any possible ground reinforcement. Then I will mix it up with either vikings or thors, depending on my economy. Of course, when I put the vikings in, the other player instantly tries to wipe them out while completely ignoring the mob of marines picking them off one by one...

 

However, if the rays are attacking your base, they will be in phase 2 before those stalkers can intercept. At that point, 2-3 rays can kill a stalker in about 2 seconds. Also, the rays are all together, meanwhile, your stalkers have to pass through areas in small groups/lines, and thus if you just run in with them they will get picked off one at a time while the rays receive little damage. Even if your stalker force is strong enough, the rays can just run away if you dont have blink.

If your force does die and he has at least 3 rays left, you need to be able to warp in about 5 stalkers at a time for them to be of any use before they get killed, as they will last about 10 seconds at best against 3 phase 2 rays.

And while you're sitting back fighting my rays, I can be expanding or building more rays to attack a different location.

However, if 25 stalkers found 12 rays that were still in phase 1, the rays would get annialated. But in phase 2 1 ray can kill 2 stalkers.

 

have you been changing up YOUR strategy? any strategy that is only about massing one kind of unit is easy to defeat. if it works against you, you need to change your strategy. if your opponents are still doing it, that's their problem.

if your opponents are actually scouting you and see you have very little anti-air, then they did the right thing by massing air units.