Just got back from Paris...my take on Starcraft 2

Hi guys...

I just got back from Paris, had a good weekend at the convention and had loads of starcraft 2 play (especially when i sacrificed watching the opening ceremony and closing ceremony for playing time) I basically wanna just point out my dissapointment in Zerg and how i dont like how powerfull protoss are, otherwise you can read on as i will type out a few games i had too

I was Zerg straight away but i am originally a protoss player. I was playing my friend which we were able to do most of the time by clicking on the multiplayer button at the same time, as the system was random and you couldnt join a privately created game. I am hugely dissapointed in Zerg, they seem the weakest race by far. Infact, i didnt win a game once with them, and everytime i played them i kicked their monkey ass with Protoss and Terran. Granted, one person came close when he got an overlord, layed some creep at the side of my base and nydus wormed his way in some zerglings, but after i recovered from that (with Tanks, yes tanks while he had Zerglings) he had no chance. He may have been a bad player or a first timer but i am basically average at best and won against them all of the time. Hydralisks in my opinion now suck...roaches are awful and zerglings are cool but so weak theyre uselsss unless its early game. My defence and my attack couldnt match what the protoss had by far.

This leads me on to the great protoss...unbelievably powerfull, nothing stops those Immortals and Stalkers, i had trouble with them constantly. My friend in the end started to use them all the time and he kept coming out top in straight on battles, as you would think considering they are a powerfull race. I was Terran against him pretty much every time bar a few and sometimes we had great matches (ill come on to this later) but other times he just seemed to be way to powerfull for me, to the point where i got really irritated with the game. But...

I love Terran, there is a massive amount of fun in harrasing your player with them, Reapers were quality for getting behind the mineral line and i irritated my friend just as much as he irritated me earlier with his powerfull units. Exactly the same tactic with Banshees, they are brilliant in the mineral line, only 4 can take loads out in no time. I loved Vikings for flying over to his poorly guarded expansions, landing and causing hell. In a word, yes, they are awesome.

After a time though he got used to this and started guarding his bases better and having units in all sorts of gaps i could get into, i could stil get passed but with alot more reapers/banshees. The dropships becoming Medics were brilliant, just dropping shielded marines and healing them was a god send, especially against those immortals which are insanely hard against my siege tank fire. As i said earlier with the good games, these were the goodens, eventually he just seemed to overpower me late game with the protoss, taking out everything i had...so if you cant beat them, join them.

Protoss tactic - make immortals and stalkers...against Zerg, simple make a few collossus and reap the rewards. It really got me confused, i honestly think they are way too good. I may be a little off with playing terrans and definitly with Zerg but still i can see no way of getting passed there amazing armys.

Even after all this though, the game is awesome, it looks awesome, it plays well, it FEELS like Starcraft bar a few Zerg defences i thought werent Zerg-like and the strategies are gonna be brilliant, especially after seeing the two pro finalists go at it on the original, they had great games, i really would love to see what pros can do with Starcraft 2. I cant wait till the full release im still wanting a game of it now.

 

Of course, you know, we're going to grill you about all of this stuff.

Did you get to use any of the higher-tier units?

Anything unusual?

Did you get to use Ghosts?

How was the game's economy, the "rebuild mine" function on gas collectors?

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There were a few games involving pros against Blizz developers broadcast, take a look. The one Zerg player we saw was a developer, not a pro, but he held against the pro pretty well.

 

Great game, and pleaes answer 10-neon questions and these:

Did their pop any "swarm units" out of destroyed zerg buildings?

And I think Zerg is indeed the weakest race, taken out from game 3 from my post that Neon linked too,
And some of the old games Savior played with SC2 zerg.

 

I'd like to hear how well the Thor worked.
Did Marauders complement Marines enough to justify the Medivac? Wasn't it hard to survive early game as Terran?

 

yeah, was the medivac usefull enought ot should the medic come back?

will there be more choices for units combinations in sc2 than in scbw?

not just vulture + tank vs zealots + dragoons?
I mean: Can you just mass a few units, or do you need to adapt more: Tank < immortal < reapers?

 

Hmm I don't like how that was sounding.

What I wanna know is: why were Immortals and Stalkers so overpowering, was it due to them not costing much? Produced too fast? Moved too fast? Not taking up enough supply?

Just those kinda things, is what I'd know to know why things were weak or overpowered.

 

Psi I just think they were OP because people just did their normal strategies:
Terran: tanks agaisnt protoss, immortals pawns that. They need to build Vikings or Cobras too. And then they need to micro tanks at stalkers and Cobras/vkings/reapers at the immortals.
At least thats what I think.

 

I've been hearing reports about "overpowered Colossi" for a long time. I thought they were just good at killing swarmers.

 

Jackals*

And yes you're probably right furrer, Marines and Tanks are doubtful to be enough against Stalkers and Immortals.

But you would think Zerglings would generally rape Stalkers and mainly Immortals just like they did Dragoons, it seems the Zerglings are a lot more fragile, that I don't like. I'd guess Mutalisks would be a good choice vs Immortals and Stalkers for obvious reasons. I think they just need to make Zerglings strong again, and give the Mutalisk some of its range back as it seems to be shorter.

 

Some other site (I think it was gosugamers), said lings were "raping". Now with bigger control groups (and even faster speed), they could destroy almost everything, and they also said the lings were even more important for the Zerg now, being the core unit ITO (in their opinion).

So Lings arent weak acording to them. And according the SC2 games Ive watched they seem very strong (last game live broadcasted was nearly won just with lings, and they werent microed very well).

Thanks for the "Jackals*" I Always mix it up.

And I think for really figuring out balance 1 hours gameplay isnt enought. Blizzard has progamers like the famous Savior (my fav progamer) trying out the game, so they probably now what they are doing.

 

Yeah, i got to use Ultralisks, briefly used carriers, my friend got a mothership, i had battlecruisers which look quality (and were good against immortals as they cant shoot flying units)

There was nothing unusual at all, everything had a good feel it really did.

Yeah i had Ghosts, i didnt use the snipe but i did get to use a few nukes, which are great looking.

Mining 5 minerals is different, i think i read about it before but i comlpetely forgot so was a complete surprise to me...its funny as one of the commentators on the starcraft 2 match mention how its almost like theyve all got lazy and decided to mine only 5. The rebuild mine function i personally think is a great addition. You instantly get told about the mine being depleted, when its depleted if you leave it, they mine 2 gas, if you rebuild it, forgot how long it takes but it isnt that long and then you mine 5 again.

if your enemy has got some gold mines and you havnt, you will be a little nervous as it really does make a big difference.

__

I actually saw that game i was sat in the middle of the crowd. I really had no hope for the Zerg butas you say he didnt do too bad. I think theyre the weakest as ive said but there is potential...zerglings early game seemed to be the best option.

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Yeah, the few games i went up against an easy computer (who were Zerg, Terran were for medium and protoss were hard, i dont know if theres a coincidence there )the computer had them, they died instantly and did hardly any damage to my zealots.

 

what about my fav. unit? were you able to get them? was there any changes to them? i must know for all the info i have of them makes them seems like a pretty useless unit atm.

note:shouldnt be to hard to figure out my fav. unit. ^_^.

 

Sorry guys i should have used Multi-quote before.

Forgot to say about the ghost, nukes seemed alot quicker to come down than before.

I did think the Marauders were good enough to cope with early game.

I dont know what your build order is, but i tend to miss out building an SCV instantly and save up for a supply depot, then start building more SCV's. It seemed to work, usually blocked off the front of my base with 3 depots and one bunker, only one bunker because if i built another, my tanks couldnt get passed them. I seemed to hold off protoss well, my mate rushed with two zealots and by this time i had a bunker pretty much full so they died..however when he came in with 4 zealots i had a problem because he was able to destroy a depot and run around to my probes (sneaky bast**d) by this time though i couldve had a factory out building Jackals...and we all know Zealots dont like fire.

Zerglings were really good, if the person rushed well i had trouble, but as ive said before, if i survive this rush, i always seemed to go on and kill them easy.

I think the medivac is a really good idea, worked real well when i was dropping marines and its healing is cool.

You need to adapt more, i feel like you need every kind of unit now. My marines were really good against immortals, but tanks werent, so without marines i wasnt doing very well...and without the protoss's zealots his immortals would go down..but then i need jackals too for the zealots, etc. etc.

basically if i massed tanks, i wouldnt get anywhere.

Immortals cost alot of money, i cant remember exactly how much but tis around 200 vespene and 150 ish mineral (i think dont quote me on that) but...im not used to making alot of marines etc. i like to defend with tanks, i am also guilty of massing abit, i.e. my defence will be full of tanks and big hitting units, this is where i was gonig wrong with the immortals. I need the small units...but then, he would have zealots which are way harder than marines, and it would all end in tragedy for me, it just seems like theyre really powerfull. There warping in feature too is brilliant. My mate told me he set a pylong outside my base and kept warping in 8 units as soon as he could.

Your right, i do build tanks and i really was getting owned with them. This was one of the main reason i was getting irritated with protoss. Looks like the strategy has to be changed.

Brilliant at killing my marines, which kill the immortals. Protoss units just feel more powerfull because every counter unit they have seems to really own your counter units.

I had alot of games, it was 20 mins and they then threw you off, but at the cermonies everynoe was busy there and they just left you on to play...i seriously must of got over 5 hours gameplay. Stll didnt feel enough though Some of the multiplayer games had a count down timer on though, strangely enough you would get 20 mins for one game and then it would count down 2 hours for the next, weird.

This is exactly what i mean by Zergs being the weaker unit though...if they rely on one unit how are they ever going to win a match passed tier 1. They may be usefull at the start but get weaker as we go on.

hydralisks are way too expensive and not good enough...Bannelings are fun though i have to admit.

As ive said though, i am not a zerg player, my build order couldve been all of the shop i really dont know, the only thing i know is that everytime i was agains them, i killed them, without any trouble, unless they rushed.

I am not the greatest Starcraft player ever, but i do love the game and this is how i felt.

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Haha, Lurkers look cool and are pretty much the same, youve got nothing to worry about there. I had them once and seemed to do the trick.

Cant say much about being against them as i never played a zerg that got that far.

 

You did of course bring us a copy of the build they had there right?

 

Oh oh I have a few questions too.

What was salvage like (time, % resources back, etc.)?
Nullifier (is it a floating ground unit, prerequisites, abilities and their effectiveness).
Which units' attack animations allowed movement from a previous move command (i.e., good for dancing, like mutalisks)?
Did Protoss buildings indicate visually if they were damaged (blue flame or anything else)?

 

Thanks for answering all the questions atsharrock!

 

Did the Zerg 12 hatch?

(becasue seems like they get owned with it in every game Ive seen)

And thanks for the asnwers, clears a lot up.

 

Ugh it seems very rock paper scissors. The fact he said, along the lines of: ''My Marines would take out the Immortals but the Zealots are way stronger than Marines then I'd need Jackals to fight them''
That my friends is called CHESS

Remember in Sc1 how Marines could beat Zealots with micro and how Zerglings could own Zealots en masse, now every time we see a Zealot-zergling clash, the Zealots always win no matter what.

 

How will you call that chess Psi (im a very strong player so....) Chess has nothing to do with countering!?

Psi thats becasue they fight 1:3, and zealots two hit zerglings now, so thats not funny eh.. (perhaps therefore zerg get pawned early).

And the rock s. p. is a result of people not getting a balanced army, so they mass tanks, then they see immortals so they mass marines etc. If they had mande some tanks, and then some marines, the enemy needed some bla. bla. bla.

Remember starcraft broodwar, wasnt the r. s. p. too? If you made carriers, then he would make goliaths (or if you name is boxer then ghosts + wraiths) etc.?

 

He said he isn't good at SC and his friend isn't either so it's possible that with professional micro the tables can be turned.

Furrer, I really hope you don't claim to be a strong chess player and say chess has no countering at all. Chess is exactly about countering. Much like in SC, if you realise what your opponent is trying to do and you don't want to fail any time soon, you are obliged to do the counters he dictates. Have you seen a chess game before? The opening moves are purely mechanical counters and are done without thinking.