I was just thinking about new possible tactics involving the creation of creep by overlords, when I thought of this. When a zerg unit burrows, it has no defense against attacks for about 1.5 seconds. This is because they need to dig into the ground and cover themselves. However, creep is nothing like stone, ice, vulcanic rock or any other ground type you might encounter. Creep is organic and soft. The idea is simple: since zerg are used to walking and fighting on creep, why would they not be able to burrow faster on creep? Instead of 1.5 seconds of being vurnerable, change it to 0.5 seconds burrow time while on creep, or something near that, depending on how large the unit is. This might look like just a small difference, but with lurkers going offensive at the moment and roaches regenerating while burrowed, this could actually save you lots of hp -since you get less damage during the burrowing- and make lurkers a lot more effective. Especially if they get a hold fire command, so people are unable to see where they are. It would also make zerg players wanting to spread their creep faster, since it is safer. That way the use of creep creating abilities of overlords and queens are also more common while in battle, instead of only for base expansion. That fits with the zerg theme, since they are a parasitic race that wants to spread itself as quickly as possible. -discuss-
I'm really not a fan of changing "hard coded" unit values like armour... it leaves a warcraft taste in my mouth. I'd welcome this mechanic with a few changes though. Make the time needed to burrow off creep 1 second and add a fidgeting animation, and make the time needed to burrow on creep to about 0.2 seconds, without the fidgeting animation.
There is still ground below creep, creep is just covering so it would be the same effort for creature to burrow. On other hand it would be weird to see ultralisk burrow him self in 0.5sec. And now zerg moves 30% faster on creep I think thats improvement enough. Hold fire command for lurkers is a great idea I see a potential in that.
I don't want any armor ratings to be changed. The burrow time should only be decreased and the unit should vanish right away instead of staying in view for about 0.7 seconds as in sc:bw. By being less vurnerable I am aiming at the visibility of the unit.
i like the idea of them burrowing faster on creep. it makes sence. like hitting desert sand insted of normal dirt. or even the creep being smart enough to open it self to the unit thus making burrowing faster. it would seem like good logic and yes it would be nice to see a zerg player try and cover the map with creep tumors since they are burrowed too. it would make a player think twice about traveling in creep covered areas.
Burrowing is useful for Zerg and a pain in the ass for everyone else. This mechanic seems like a nice balanced way to tweak it. It will make the Zerg be ever so slightly more cautious using burrowing offensively (healing Roaches in combat and using Lurkers,) while still giving them a perk. Sounds good to me. How about on creep for Zerglings 0.25, Roaches, Hyrdas, most other, o.5, and Ultralisks, 0.75. Off creep add one second. 12new@aol.com: I like the idea of creep opening up to allow Zerg to burrow, makes it more alive.
Thanks for the feeback. This idea actually works. About the ultralisk burrowing faster: that would be overpowered. It should imo be unable to burrow at all, since it is a slow gtg tanker unit. Making it hide when enemy air approuches sounds unbalanced to me. --discuss-- About creep opening up: great visual detail, but kinda weird if you think longer: if it can open to zerg, why not to enemy ground units to kill them? And that would be overpowered. Maybe if it were a queen ability, that would work. And the unit hp -if organic- would be added to damaged zerg buildings close by. Good idea?
Really this is such a minor thing that it doesnt matter? But whatever, it sound allright so thumb up!
Thanks, but I wasn't trying to change the whole mechanic by adding tuneling for every unit and crap like that, hence the Minor word in the title. - And to prevent going really of topic again by throwing in ideas like: Yes! 300000 damage by banelingzzz, carrots are my fave veggie! I just farted on this topic! Huhuhu. - ... Like that.
Yeah, actually I like it, its just a bit like what we discussed in another topic (+2, -1 dmg is Blizzards role ), but its not completly the same, its a great minor adjustment that should be implented, as it makes Lurkers more effective on creep, and therefore creep-play even more important.
That is exactly what I meant to accomplish with this topic. Having people focussed on how stuff works and what tactics come from thinking like that. I already pointed that out in the terran concerns topic, and you are right about the damage adjustments, that just is something that Blizzard is good at. The community neve knew all damage rates and stuff from all units and buildings at once, so discussing those had no point. -It will when beta is released, so I really hope Jon has come up with some table by then to fill in all the numbers for discussing them.-
Anyone know how long the creep tumor lasts? this ability can also be effective since no other race can build upon creep, so if you have overlords flood a base and all start spewing creep everywhere that prevents them from building any sort of defense or rebuilding a critical building, ie: supply depot, pylon (for several reasons), barracks or command center/nexus. while you have other units attacking of course.
As long as off-creep burrow stays 1.5 seconds, otherwise the strategy of burrowing your units as they take damage to protect them would become a little too powerful, especially with roaches. Sure the enemy can get detectors but keep in mind they'd need to bring detectors to bear on every single ground battle to counter it no matter what units the zerg was fighting with, and the strategy still has use with a 1.5 second burrow time, it's just not as powerful and can be countered with good focus firing.
I think it should be faster for zerg to burrow on creep. 0.5 seconds is good. Make it longer for the Ultralisk because it is so large.
It sounds like a nice defensive bonus to Zerg. Not something that you will notice every game but a nice little incentive to cover ever more area with creep. I see no reason why this shouldn't work.
What about enemy zerg units on your creep? If you make creep intelligent enough to help your units burrow, maybe it could be intelligent enough to recognize enemy zerg units that does not belong to that creep, hindering somewhat their burrowing skills. But if that is the case, you couldnt build zerg buildings on enemy creep and I dont think that should be implemented. What do u think?
Well I think unless the creep is the same color as your base/unit color then it would be hard to decern from the enemy creep, but maybe the enemy Zerg would just not get the speed upgrade of 30%, (since there used to moving on creep) and make the enemy (Protoss and Terran) have a let's say 10% speed decrease, therefore your even more carful of entering creep and the would make you want to creep the entire map more . Anyone not like that idea?
