Ok, I did this already for the Zerg, and since Terrans we know a lot more, this should be easier. Here goes the tech and units that I think should come with each: 1- Barracks: Marines and Reapers; 2- Barracks + Tech-lab: Medics and Ghosts; 3- Factory: Siege-tank and Viking; 4- Factory + Tech-lab: Siege-tank (siege-mode) and Viking (air mode); 5- Factory + Armory: Cobras and Firebats; 6- Armory: Thor; 7- Starport: Dropships and Banshees; 8- Starport + Tech-lab: Nomads and Battlecruisers; 9- Deep-space relay: BC's abilities; This way all buildings will enable 2 new units each, making none less important. Special Ops. would be both a nuke and drop-pod factory, as well as research building for Ghost's cloak (as it is currently being tested already). It would require Engineering bay as prerequisite instead of Merc Haven, allowing the player to get upgrades for infantry (such as the Ghost itself) on the path to Special Ops., and making it a smooth upgrade, still keeping the nukes and cloaking for later. With this, getting Missile turrets won't be a tech delay, and would encourage players to get the upgrades of Engineering-bay too. Firebats would come from the Armory along with the Cobras. This way, all units from the factory could benefit from a reactor add-on, but air-Vikings and Siege-mode siege-tanks would require a Tech-lab. Should the enemy try to keep the battle on the ground, you could choose the reactor and spam Vikings without the air upgrade, in example. Who knows what this could be useful for? But the Firebats could pose as a counter to Immortals (and that's why so late). As Gasmaskguy said, Blizzard is trying Firebat's attack as a sweep similar to the Colossus. If that's so, it could do damage over time instead of a big chunk of instant damage, and this way go around the tough Immortal shields. The other option to counter Immortals I can think of would be getting Nomads with EMP (assuming they keep it with them), and so the Firebat would open up a possible tech to Thor instead, as armory would be its prerequisite. Making an Armory instead of a Starport would be more of an option with Firebat there, imo. As well as Firebat's possible role as counter to masses, as we don't know what will come from the enemy at this stage of the game. Also, Banshees would be able to be made sooner and faster as first unit from Starport, but require a tech-lab to get cloak, and this way buy more time for the enemy to get detection. Same for BCs, that would require a tech-lab, but pose merely as slow air-hulks without a Deep space relay. Deep space relay would allow each BC to upgrade Yamato or Plasma array while up. And as I mentioned before, Reapers would add more options for early game, being available at barracks from start, but still being made the same way as they were in Merc Haven (cooldown to load and instant shopping). That's all I had in mind. I know I could have discussed each individually, but they work so well together in my mind that I preferred to make it a group, as each of them justifies the other somehow. I would like to see EMP with the Nomads back because to give it to the Ghost would completely nullify the Immortals. Firebats and Nomads as 2 possible late counters would make more sense, preserving the Immortals' use and still allowing freedom in the Terran tech-tree. Sry for the long post! :-X
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree I like it! I want ST and Cobras to benefit from Reactors too! owerup: Only problem I've got... is that the Thor comes too early. The Banshee thing is awesome, it is like Siege Tanks. You get em kinda fast, but they require an extra structure to research its ability. The Thor just needs to be tier 3.
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree vikings are now at the starport replacing the coolest looking unit ever the predator still have transform (vks)
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree Ty Gasmaskguy! I was thinking the Thor could come earlier because it requires so many resources and another building for it would make it the only unit to need an entire building just for it. However, they could add something to make the Munitions Depot useful and cheap as a building. Wow! Just thought of something cool: what if Munitions Depot act as a supply depot strictly for the Thor, and for it being so close to a building, it doesn't take any Supply and rather this separate "food" specific for it? O_O Munitions Depots seem to be smaller than Supply Depots, and probably cheaper also. It would free up the enormous supply the unit takes, and make it more interesting. Should I open up a thread for it?
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree I like your set up, but I would make a few changes 1- Barracks: Marines Reapers; 2- Barracks + Tech-lab: Medics; 3- Merc Haven: Firebats and Reapers; 4- Baracks + Tech-lab + Shadow Opts: Ghost; 5- Factory: Siege-tank and Viking; 6- Factory + Tech-lab: Siege-tank (siege-mode) and Viking (air mode); 7- Factory + Armory: Cobras and Firebat Upgrade; 8- Starport: Dropships and Banshees; 9- Starport + Tech-lab: Valkary Replacement; 10- Tech building + Starport + Tech-lab: Nomad and Battlecruiser; 10- Deep-space relay: BC's abilities; 11- Thor building: Thor; Tech tree for buildings: 0- None: CC and Supply Depot; 1- CC: Baracks and Refinery; 2- Baracks: Bunker, Merc Haven, Tech-lab and Reactor; 3- Baracks: Engineering Bay; 4- Engineering Bay: Missile Turrets, Radar Tower, Shadow opts, Factory: 5- Factory: Armory, Planetary Fortress and Survellance Station; 6- Armory + Factory: Starport; 7- Starport: Tech building; 8- Tech building: Thor building and Deep-space Relay; If i've left anything out in this proposed tech tree please tell me. PS: I know this is not in sync with the current from of the game but I don't give a damn about how they curretnly have things. I want changes and those changes would fit with this. PPS: maybe I should explain why I changed some things. I want the Merc Haven back first of all and I don't want the firebat built from the factory. I'd rather have it a tier 1.5 unit and have it be able to upgrade at some point in tier 2 to a more powerful unit. That way the terran still have tier 1 defense against melee and will have it still be somewhat useful in tier 2 by upgrading. I also want a valkary replacement. I also think the Thor should be in Tier 3. PPPS: Well I need to say one more thing about the armory. I like the idea of that being a tier 2 tech building instead of a late tier 1 tech building.
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree I have a few doubts: is the Reaper available from start or after Merc Haven, at your idea? And is Ghost only available after Special Ops., like it used to? It seems as if Reapers were a choice to Ghosts too, and not an earlier unit. I think Ghosts come too early on this, and since detection has been nerfed, it might be too OP. I know you want changes, but we gotta think about the possible gaps that players might explore. In example, I think Nomads have to come earlier, in order to be able to counter Immortals with EMP. Siege-tanks won't do after they get Immortals, and I don't think Reapers will be the counter to them, as they were vastly outnumbered in the original demo. Overall, I would have to say there are too things misunderstood about it to discuss Quanta. :-\ Sry, but could you explain better how does it work in face of a Protoss and a Terran enemy tech possibilities?
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree Reapers would be available after merc haven. I dont like the idea of them being available at start. Ghost would be available after building Shadow Opts building which would be in tier 1.5. I'm pretty sure this is something Blizzard is doing at the moment anyway. Also ghosts have EMP now, not Nomads so Nomads can't counter Immortals right now anyway. Also, I dont' think detection has been nerfed that much. Since with this tech tree Radar Towers are still eariler in game before ghosts I don't see a problem for Terran. Protoss would still get phase cannons before ghost so it wouldn't be a problem for them either, or at least I assume they do. Also, I intend to have Reapers and Firebats built from the Merc Haven and not have it just be a requirement. I liked the mechanic of how the Merc Haven was supposed to work with building 4 once. I hope that should clear those things up for you.
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree Yeah, you did. But Reapers could be built the same way as they were in Merc Haven, but in Barracks instead, couldn't they? And I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think Phase-cannons aren't detectors. If that's so, Protoss would only get detection after they get Observers, which is quite late. But that's just something I have to recheck before any further. I think the Nomads part I've incorporated in my mind, lol! Yep, they aren't using EMP anymore, you're right. It is just I that thinks EMP will be too OP for the Ghost to wield. Anyway, it doesn't take anything that can't be brought back, like mana or shields, so I guess there wouldn't be much of a problem. Anyway, thanks for the explanation! You've reverted a few things back to the original (Blizzcon version) with the difference that you put the Firebat in the Merc Haven, requiring the Factory to build it, and removed the Merc Haven from the requirements to build a Special Ops./Shadow Ops.. If they make cannons detect, then it could be possible. But I can't shake the feeling that I saw cannons description in some Blizzcon photos somewhere, and that they weren't detectors. If only I could remember the site...
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree Well, if you are right about the cannons not having detection any more that could be a problem. I hope cannons do have detection since just obs seems hardly sufficient. They would have the worst detection of any race, assuming Overlords still detect. Also, I think firebats should be on the same tech as a reaper and not require a factory to build and to have them be built from the Merc Haven. If the Merc Havens building mechanic can be moved over to the barracks but just for reapers having all infantry be built by the barracks would be ok. What I want to happen with the firebats is that they should be upgraded in tier two. Maybe the armory can have the upgrade for them, or possibly the tech-lab but requireing the factory to be built first before the upgrade becomes available. I would like to have them around in tier one but if they are going to be in the game they really do need to be useful into tier 2 so an upgrade sometime in tier 2 to bring them up to speed is a good way to have both.
Re: Idea 4 Terran tech-tree Well, Observer coming late would come from the fact that they also benefit from the nerfing of detection.
Phase Cannons are detectors. Blizzard hasn't revealed an alternate mode of detection, so it is reasonable to assume that they are still the Protoss' structure-detectors. -- The Merc Haven does not build 4 units at once, it is just continuously "building" units, and can only hold 4. To get them out, you have to pay for them and there is a very short build time associated with that. Once all four are bought, you have to wait longer as the structure refills itself. -- Quanta: the "Thor Building" is called the Munitions Depot.
Here you go! Phase cannons Blizzcon description: nothing about detection! http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=8052&game_id=4110&id=103231 EDIT: All units' descriptions mention if they can attack air, ground or whatever. Even in starcraft 1 detection was mentioned in a unit's profile. Also, as Nomads currently aren't detectors, detection HAS been nerfed.
By the look of it, the structure is in Phase Mode, which gets a different stat window. Notice that, not only does it lack detection, it lacks a weapon as well.
Wow! You're right! O_O Hadn't noticed that. Well, then we are back to not having a clue. However, it would still make sense, since Observers are as far up in the Tech-tree as Dark Templars are. But I won't assume anything else out of it.
Observers have always been on the same level in the tech tree as (Dark and High) Templar: SC1: Templar: ...Cybernetics Core>Citadel of Adun>Templar Archives Observer: ...Cybernetics Core>Robotics Facility>Observatory In SC2, as of BlizzCon, it was: Dark Templar: ...Cybernetics Core>Twilight Council>Dark Obelisk High Templar: ...Cybernetics Core>Twilight Council>Templar Archives Observer: ...Cybernetics Core>Robotics Facility>Null Curcuit
Yeah, but I meant it as a possibility. As in "it wouldn't be impossible to counter cloaking, even without a cannon". I don't know if this would be easy or work in the game. Just thought, in theory, that it could. Not saying it is an indication of something, as I already stated in the last sentence of my previous post.
The only thing I don't like about the current tech tree is having the Viking built at the starport. I also think they need more add-ons. ATM we only have like 2-3.
But thats part of the point. It's a big change in the way you play, because what add-ons you decide to build affects what units you can use. I think it'll make the game more interesting. You actually have more decisions to make when it comes to building your base. Hat will you do with your command centre? Leave unmoded, but unable to fly? Been able to use your supply depot to help defend your base, but not block your own units (how many times did you get units stuck in between buildings?) At the moment, my only real gripe is that we've still got buildings, who's only purpose is to unlock units. I'd rather that we had something more interesting. Maybe a single advanced tech/armoury building, that you upgrade to access new units. That way you'd have to choose whether you research abilities for your units or upgrade to access new units (a little like the hatchery/Liar/hive with the zerg).
