Hrm, I'm a one trick pony (void rays)

First time poster, been lurking these forums a bit for some help tho. I played SC1 a lot, but never would say I'm skilled, micro is just just difficult for me lol.

Anyway, have solely been doing 2v2, and as Zerg I prolly had a 50-50 win ratio, or less. Sometimes due to my teammate, sometimes just me sucking.

Well, out of frustration, I switched to Protoss. I believe I'm 7-0 since I switched... I don't chalk it up to skill, so much as race. Quick defense, bunker down to survive first attack, expand, mass void rays. The end. Are their counters to them? While relatively costly, I have no problem massing them and keeping my base defended. No need to flame me, as I'm new, but in my opinion, I see a big time imba here. As I said before, I'm not great. I have good practice in the first few minutes of the game given how many times I've gotten my butt handed to me, but that's about it. They just seem so functional at all situations (with the exception of pure anti air, and even then, one for one, I've come out on top FF'ing). Remember, I do only 2v2, so maybe in 1v1 wouldn't have the time to do it, but if I'm able to defend two players (sometimes by myself), don't see why it'd be harder 1v1.

Yet to even have a close game really (yes, I'm in the beginning leagues, w/e). There was one, where I just let my base go cause I knew I'd destroy theirs before mine, and he was using the same "strategy." I don't think this unit is balanced AT ALL.

So two questions:

1) Do you think its fine as is, should I just "enjoy" the wins while they last as this beast is getting nerfed?

2) What is the most cost efficient counter to them? (as Zerg or Terran).

Enlighten me =), and thanks for taking the time to read. This is not a whine, and if it comes off that way, its a whine cause I hate playing as Protoss, I feel dirty. I want to be a good zerg player but I'm clueless /tear. I guess what I'm getting at is, I see mass void rays often, and now I see why. If I switch back to what I want to play, I need to be able to deal with them. I'm aware of two queens early to take out early harassment. But I seem to struggle getting Hydra's up in time for their larger wave, especially with range boost.

 

They are fine because they have such easy counters.

Terran: Lots and lots of marines.
Zerg: Hydralisks and mutalisks.
Protoss: Stalkers with blink.

They only seem so overpowered probably because your opponents just continue making huge high tier units that void rays are designed to counter. Or maybe they aren't scouting you to see if you are making tons of them.

 

I must be doing something wrong with Zerg then. Cause at times a prot player will have about 3-4 void's up before I even have my first couple Hydra's, let alone Mutalisk's.

I struggle with anti air as zerg.

I'm not sure how the scouting will help people, I don't bring my void's up too early like some players. I build a solid defense/economy first, then just throw up 2, maybe 3 stargates and start pumping out the buggers. Usually my teammate will do some harassing and I'll defend them as well with what ground troops I have available. Most games last 10-15 minutes max. I think a very aggressive player slowing down my resources would be viable, but I haven't met one yet (few that tries, but I usually have a few stalkers running around). Will keep playing tho, maybe once I hit the next tier/league I'll be against people that counter it.

 

I agree that Zerg is most vulnerable to a Void Ray rush, and scouting it is absolutely crucial. If you see 2 early gas that is a huge red flag. If you know it's coming you can reach Hydra tech in time (if they have 3-4 Void Rays that is even more time to get Hydras), lay down a couple of Spore Crawlers too.

PvP, having a Sentry with Guardian Shield is really helpful against a Void Ray rush. Make 1-2 with your Stalkers.

 

Yeah you must be doing something wrong. You should scout their base with an overlord to see if they are getting something tricky like void rays, so you can be prepared with hydralisks.

 

I'm going to work on my build order with Zerg more. I find zerg to be so much more difficult in 2v2. I think I try to tech up too fast suffering economically. The basic build order (up to like 18 supply cap) I have down to a science, but then I start to make poor choices I think. Been reviewing videos and there's a lot of changes I could make.

And ya, sending out an overlord as scout is crucial and I have been an idiot not to. I always did in SC1 but I've been forgetting.

The video's I've watched online may "start" slower than me in production, but by the same marker in time line they generally have more troops and a better income. It'll just take some practice on my part I guess. My strongsuit is macro, so I should be able to get a handle on Zerg I would think. They're just more difficult than Prot in my opinion.

I haven't even tried Terran, I've never been a fan of the race even in SC1 tho.

Here's another branch off question. I don't see Zerg as being terrible strong in a long game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Prot and Terrain seem to get some heavy duty units that obliterate Zerg in the end game. So I always feel stressed that I need to keep constant pressure on them.

 

Welcome to the Zerg world, then! That is how it works, Protoss WILL have Void Rays before you have Hydras. Only ways I can beat this is: Evolution Chamber and spend A LOT of minerals on Spore Crawlers, or mass Queens (about 4 or 5) to hold the protoss back. Then, you must imediatly outmine him and kill him fast, because if he amasses more Void Rays, GG. Terran banshees offer a similar threat. Despite this, I made it to top places in Gold league as a Zerg only player, so I think this things are beatable, they are only very dificult to counter.

 

Scout the protoss:

Is he going 4 gate, 3 gate and 1 robotic, 2 gate zealot or 1 gate and tech to starport.

You can FE and you first 100 gas should go for your lair... I dont see any problem to void ray. 2-3 queen can be a good counter if he's comming with the first Void ray: then Hydra should be rdy.

 

I'm not a mighty good player myself, middle of the silver league. I pretty much suck at micro and tend to get overwhelmed (I.e. not produce enough drones, or units, and end up with huge mineral surpluses) when having three bases and combat going on.

But void rays don't trouble me. I usually go ling + fast muta + expand versus all protoss, and my experience is fast mutas > fast void rays (at least in 3/4 of my battles). Mutas take out void rays in the early fights ( usually 5v2) and provide better map control due to their speed. Of course, in the end,the better player wins, but I find the good Toss players take me out with mass stalkers and a very good expand+build+defense strategy until they have acritical mass... I've lost to void rays twice only, and once was when I went hydras.

 

Honestly, I've massed marines against Void Rays and they still get destroyed. I am trying to come up with a better strategy.. but the only thing I can come up with is viking/ ghosts (using emp). I just don't know if it will be legit/ will have enough vikings in time for the VRs.

 

Marines are designed to be a hard counter to Void Rays and *is* the correct strategy. There is no reason to try to go Vikings/Ghosts.

 

It is, but terrans will usually go marauder heavy if they weren't able to scout the stargate.

I've rarely lost a 2v2 using rays, even won a game earlier where my ally died but my 5-6 rays were able to kill both bases even though they were trying to get mass stalkers to fight them.

 

Just a qucik question, what does "FE" means as zerg player?

 

Fast Expand.

 

of course, fool of a took i am. thx cabbage

 

Void Ray topic

I like the void ray discussions alot and I have a few thinks to say about it. I'm no expert on this topic so take the comments lightly. If you disagree, that's ok too.

When I first played the beta I, started as random but eventually ended up playing protoss because the void ray rush won me alot of games. Now I'm back to random.

I've found that some players are very good at countering the void rays and others are not, and there seems to be lots of counters to them. So in my opinion they are not op, just easy for 1st time sc2 players to work with.

You asked if you should keep using them. Absolulely! . There are still many players unprepared for them and they are easy wins, so why not. As my rating climbed up I found I needed to diversify into 4 gate or FE Robo or other builds to win, because the void rays were expected.
Lately Ive been experimenting with Dark Templars after watching Nony make great use of them.

Since I play random I also need to counter void rays. Here are my favorite strategies for that
(again just an opinion)

PvP - scout - if he walls in with cannons its probably void rays. At least in most of my games. I mass up Pheonixes. If I win the exchange I get a mothership and start lifting and taking out ground units with the pheonixes. Works well for me anyway.

ZvP - scout - If he does not wall in he is easy pray for the 24 speedling rush. If he does wall in double the zerglings but morph half of them in to banelings. Bust the wall and run in with the speedlings. This works amazingly well.

TvP - scout - (always) - If he walls in get vikings. They rock against void rays. get 3 starports and upgrades for the vikings. Once you win the exchange get banshees or even battlecruisers to finish him off.

Like I said before, there are so many void ray counters I couldn't even list them all. I leave that for others to talk about.


Personally I like all the races. And I know so liitle about all the match ups I am having great fun just playing every possible strat I can get my hands on. If you like a particular race thats cool. Everyone is different.



Flash

 

That is some nice insight, Flash. The only thing I find OP about Void Rays, is that they are no longer vulnerable to small units, like they were supposed to be... They can now charge up their ray between targets. Hell, I had an opponent who quickly charged all the way up using my ZERGLINGS. I think that must be fixed....

 

You know, the only reason I really hate Rays as Zerg isn't because I can't defend them, but because I find it difficult to know if they're coming.

Damn protoss always walls off and I can't get a decent scout into the base until maybe lairtech. It's so frustrating! But if you expect rays, I don't think they're too hard to counter. 'Toss may get 1 in before you get your hydras, but you can fend that off quite easily with 2 queens and a spine crawler or 2. By the time he has a few you should have hydras.

I do think the best strat to use if your opponent is going rays though is just to rush him. When people go fast ray all their resources and buildings are aimed at teching asap - leaving them very vulnerable to fast roach/ling attacks.

 

hi first time poster here, but one of the things that seem to be an issue with people here is not getting the scouting done at all when they are walling off, I am currently at least #1 in my gold league and still giong strong, and the void rays to me at least is the easiest win i can get from a protoss now a days ( except the free win aka 6 pool cheese vs noobs).

But all you need to scout even if he has a wall in it's pretty damn easy to count from the small veiw you get if he has lot's of units or not seemingly as all toss nowadays seem to line their army up behind their wall off stupidly enough.

So if you just use 2 lings in the start and a bit into the game you can easily scout and see are there lot's of zealos/stalkers/force feild dudes/immortals there ? Are there any units whatsoever there ?

If the answer is no, then most likely he is going with the void rayz or some damn dropped or just macroing up, but then you can make the decision right there to go either defensive against him, or mass up the army you need. (seriously, hydras is way to fast to get imo)

And often when they use this tactic it's easy to get an FE or 2 and just make some anti air spore, at each base and keep som lings for safety of the most likely dual harras with ground units.

Saw someone talking about baneling open up the damned wall off, good idea havent gone baneling opening so far, going to try it if I get a good map for it

 

There are many scenarios in the lower level games where players do not scout enough (as opposed to higher league play) and allow for these fast tech builds to thrive. However, nearly any intelligently micro'd attack against a fast tech has the upper hand, merely because of army size. If you decide to stay in tier 1 and 1.5 for the "suggested" amount of time (a typical 3 phase game early, mid, late) then aside from zerg you shouldn't have problems defending against early air. What are amazingly effective against Void's are Corruptors, esspecially as zerg. Most of your strategy and micro is focused around roach/ling/hydra builds (possibly banelings) so it is probably important to grab an early spire. I personally don't have to much trouble with the extra gas as zerg and am super quick at grabbing my lair. While doing this I'm normally putting out harassment pressure to force the other player to micro and forget about his own resources. Meanwhile, I'm pooling larve from 2 bases for muta's/corruptors to basically counter any new air that they just reached. If they didn't end up going air they aren't a total waste of units as you will now have the advantage of the air and you can scout properly and turn it into a macro game. Control the map and drain his resources, should get you the win. Few players have great APM (Actions Per Minute) and I know myself make more mistakes while defending and teching then just teching (that's pretty obvious).