How would you beat terran if you didnt have lurkers?

Honestly, if that unit is gone i dont see how a zerg can kill masses of marines with medics and tanks.

There probably will be a new unit to kill them, but just out of curiousity how would you do it without lurkers?

 

that would depend on how high both players are on their tech-tree.but i'd say there's no attack 24 zerglings and some hydralisk can't counter using burrow to make a trap...

 

I disagree. The Lurker is not required to kill M&M. But the addition of the medic certainly makes it a lot tougher to take out large groups of Marines.

The solution is strategy. Don't simply meet your enemy on open ground. You must divide and conquer. A good way to do this is to burrow ling groups strategically (or simply attack strategically) from behind to attract the attention of forward moving Marines when the player isn't necessarily paying attention. The Marines that see the Zerglings will turn to meet the threat (if on "attack" command) thereby creating a gap between the Marines and Medics that see the Zerglings and the Marines and Medics that don't.

During this period where there is a gap, when it is also likely that Seige Tanks will be unpacked and rolling, is an opportune moment to strike with a large group of Hydralisks, Mutalisks, and Zerglings from another opportune location. You could execute this attack from the "middle" while the first batch of Marines is still diverted, or you could attack from your base outlet.

Quickly massacreing the Marines is the best option.

Then deal separately with the remainders of the second group of Marines and the leftover tanks.

Your Terran enemy has now been weakened to the point that a full scale attack is not out of the question.

 

I would beat them as I did befor Brood Wars came out.
No, seriously, like Joneagle_X said, there are lots of other strategies you could use, and we still don't know what ALL of the new Zerg units and abilities will be, I guess we will just have to wait before we can say things like: "Omg, the Zerg will lose without their Lurkers."

But that's just my opinion.

 

Marines and medics in a good ratio would kill any amount of zerglings I presume?

 

Well it all depends how high the terran is and how high the zerg is on the tech tree... Of course for example zerglings with adrenaline will kill out any tanks and a nice pack of hydra's will play with the marines... But if the zerg is high on the tech tree... Bring down the guardians and watch everything pop Don't forget the numbers... the Zerg are so many when it comes to armies...

 

I suppose if you mass guardians valkryies come. But that bug probably hinder you and lose the game (not enough doodad space).
Would banelings kill marines (and medics)?

 

banelings are pretty tough when transforming, in that protoss vid the zealots were pounding away at those cocoons and only managed to kill a couple i believe. so the best thing to do when do when you see baneling eggs is to retreat,

 

Yay, that's your counter to marines!
Now, anything else that we need to find a counter against?

 

i can totally imagine the scenario where a gosu zerg player with god like micro skiilz sets a trap by luring m&m into the center of a circle, he then surrounds the infantry will a wall of zerglings, simultaneously transform all of them into baneling eggs, creating a physical barrier giving m&m no where to run, all they can do is wait for their inevitable deaths...

 

I think there isnt any amount of zerglings that can go through 36+ marines stim packed with medics, also, a detector (science vessel) always travels with the terran army, so strategic burrow of zerglings wont work.

Presuming banelings dont have much more hp than zerglings they wont be much of a counter to marines.

Hydras are no match for marines with medics honestly, i've taken down dozens of hydras with 24 marines and medics, and i mean dozens.

The only thing imo that can stop marine medic mass is lurkers and maybe guardians on high ground thats it.

I would play any zerg on broodwar, to try to beat me without lurkers

 

hydras no match for marines with medics? that is so wrong. hydras can kill anything easily except heavily armored units.

 

Standard stim-packed Marines do more damage than a standard Hydrlisk, so I guess it isn't wrong Josh.
And with some medics around to heal the damage the Stim-packs do when used, I don't thinck the Hydras will kick many asses in a Marine vs Hydralisk battle, even when they are in greater numbers. (but not TO many)

 

well, personally and by experience, hydras can kill marines. and your arguement might be possible if the terrans assign a medic to each marine.

 

DKutrovsky and Fo®Saken are right. m&m >> hydra

you need to have good micro and your opponent bad micro to beat m&m with hydras, the medics simply heal too fast. you need to manulally focus hydra fire on individual marines so that they die before medics can heal. even then it's fairly difficult. if you don't micro you are likely to lose all your hydras and only kill a few of marines.

 

M&M owns mass hydras so bad, that it isn't even funny. Stim-pack + medics heal basically will plow through all the hydras that you could send.

I remembered back in the day where I knew someone on b-net saying mass hydras were the best. I argued that M&M alone would take it. He didn't believe so we went up a 1vs1 game. All he did was mass hydras while I M&M. I crushed his army and his base in no time.

As for the Zergs, you never fight head on against the Terran. In order to beat a decent Terran, you have to harass him like crazy. Terran's army moves very slow. You could intercept his army along the way. If the Terran is doing his full march, you could drop a bunch of units at his main. It takes forever for a Terran army to move back and save it. Take out his workers and key buildings and your attack is considered successful.

One of the stat that I fear when I go against the Zerg is quick muta harrass and tech to Guardians. Mutas will give you fits when micro properly. It will fly around and hit you everywhere. If you leave your base, he will come back and haunt you. Since I'm a Terran player, when I see that stat, I build a few missle turrets on my weak-spot. But the trouble comes when he quicks tech to Guardians. Yes, I can plow through his main. But chances are, he will have a few sunkens up. Against Zerg, I usually only have 1 factory early-mid game with 3 rax non-stop pumping units. In order to crack down his base, I need alot of tanks. Zerg player will do everything to dely me until he gets Guardians. Once Guardians are out, I would be in trouble. I could build Goliaths or Wraiths to counter it but well microed Guardians basically PWN Goliaths. Wraiths or Valkyries would work but to be honest, how many people builds Wraiths or Valkyires in SC? Late game, I don't fear Guardians because by then, I will have enough SV to non-stop Irradiate all of his Guardians. But this is mid-game and if the Zerg fasts tech to guardians while having defence in his base, it is trouble. Guardians purpose is to just pick out my Siege Tanks and that's it. Once that is done, it can just support his non-stop hydras/zergling swarm and it would be GG.

 

Lets see havent played a loot of brodwar but even from the original i know that hidras do like 5 dmg vs rines and with medics its even harder... what rely pwns the rines is the guardian 2 shots and hes off, have 20 or so and they can take out any amount of marines, 2 armor on the guardians makes it even harder for marines too off em just hit em from affar.Death from above... but that really only works for lategames and big battles with lots of units

 

Ultralisk Well you'd expect titan-class units to crush massed infantry, thanks to starcraft's direct armour system instead of warcraft's percentage based armour system.

Actually if u look at MM .. they are a
1)low hp
2)mobbing
3)low individual damage,
4)highly mobile
5)fast attack rate
7)reliable and fast healing

We'll simply need zerg units that can do any of the
1)Deal AoE damage
2)can kill marines in 1 hit ? or at least 2 hits and will deal any excess damage that will be more than a medic can heal
3)High armour
4)Instant hitting projectiles (if ranged)

I mean you dont need all of the abilites as it'd be overkill.. but it seems protoss have such an easier way to counter MM..as they can just match them in pure battle or tech a few steps ahead.
1)Zealots seem to hold their own
2)DT are easier to tech to compared to ultralisk (baring scanners)
3)Reavers are easier to tech to compared to ultralisk
4)Psi storm is eaiser to tech to compared to ultralisk
-------------------
to YCH9

The way you described the zerg vs terran matchup is EXACTLY how story wise i'd imagine the Protoss would manhandle the terran straight up and that the terrans would have to rely on superior tactics and cunning to overcome such a powerful foe. Odd that the zerg have to put aside their feral instincts and come together with a hunting-pack trick to defeat some measly humans eh ?

 

M&M > Ultralisks, they just dont do enough damage,

as for guardians, a few vessals + a few air units is enough, and if the zerg player is thinking of harrasing with mutas, pop a bunker and 3-4 turrents in the main and the expo and you're good, if he goes for guardians you can either attack him and take him out early or just get some counter for them, irradiate being the best, since 75 mana is very cheap to kill such a big expensive unit.

Also, vs zerg i sometimes made valkyries, harras his overlords and kill the mutas, quite funny and they are actually pretty good at that.

1 hyrda does 5 damage, 1 marine does 6 damage, marines are smaller, faster when stim packed and do double damage when stim packed, so if its a 1 upgrade for each, the hydra will do 5.5 damage per sec, while the marine will do 14 damage per sec, with medics healing him, you do the math.

 

If M&Ms arrive you would very well try to stop him with Zerglings and Hydrliask. If he came with lots of them, chances are, your banelings could ambush his flanks and kill a couple of medics. Then rush the zerglings and hydralisk towards unsupported marines and hope that Kerrigen bless you.