How to counter mid game tanks?

What kind of counters can a Zerg player use against Tanks when going ZvT mid to late game?

Without dark swarm how can Zerg approcach any armies? Are you forced to use roaches as meat shields?

Whats everybodys elses thoughts on this matchup.

 

Roaches are not meatshields when it comes to combating Siege Tanks. Extreme regeneration is nothing when you get one-shotted by Tanks.

Zerg have plenty of options. Lurkers, Hydralisks, Zerglings, Banelings, Swarm Guardians, Infestors and Ultralisks are all viable counters.

 

A lot of those are not viable counters. Banelings get one-shotted and it takes 3 to kill a tank, lurkers are tier 3, hydralisks can focus fire but die in 2 hits, swarm guardians are tier 3-4, so are ultralisks...

I suggest using a mass of zerglings, but that depends on the siege tank's splash radius. (They get one-shotted.)

 

what do sc1 guys normally use when attacked by mid game tanks?

 

Mutas?

 

What Simbob said - A low level flying unit, massed. Of course, if they've got air support, that'd make it a bit tricky.

 

Zerglings/Roaches sent in to absorb the first volley may work if you have a superior number yes and lurker support. (Thats also taking into consideration killing a tank is harder now that they have more health and increased range.)

Mutas would be pretty good counter if you dont get shot to **** from the marines, AND have excellent Jaedong-esq micro.

I think it would be safe to assume that by the mid to late game the Terran will be pumping Tanks out of some sort of 2 fact build and one barracks for a decent number of marines for anti-air. Terran would push at around 4-6 tanks and perhaps 9-12 marines.
What could a Zerg respond with in that situation with proper scouting information.?

 

Burrowed Banelings come to mind, if you know where the enemy is going (same would also be true for Lurkers). Other than that, hitting them with mutas should do fairly well, assuming you spend a similar amount of resources as the Terran player you would probably have have as many Mutas (if not more) as he had Marines; so given the nature of the Mutas attack you would likely eat the Terran alive.

 

Burrowed Banelings can both ambush Tanks or can simply be deployed as mines. Tanks are also often grouped, so Banelings will be able to hit multiple at once, so it's not as though you need three times the number of Tanks in Banelings.

For the Hydralisks, if you exclude everything that dies in two shells then you're severely limiting yourself. Siege Tanks have a longer cooldown in StarCraft2 so simply spreading out the Hydralisks can hinder the Tanks greatly. On top of that, they've got a strong attack and, what with being a Zerg unit and all, are easily massable.

As for they Lurkers, Swarm Guardians and Ultralisks, they come at the same tier as the Defiler, which, being removed, was the original cause for the concern. On top of that, merely coming later does not mean they are not viable counters, especially when Zerglings are such a simple and ever-present counter for early Siege Tanks.

Sending in Roaches to absorb Siege Tank fire would be most unwise. They're slower, larger and four times as expensive as Zerglings, and die in the same number of shots.

 

I very much agree with IHG, I jsut want to add that with the boost of the ST, their cost has increased too, and so its even harder to get a good amount of them.

And how often do the zerg even try to counter the Terran army midgame in a 2 v 3 base situation? Its much more about defensive play, look at Jeadong/Savior for that.

 

@ using lurkers against tanks
You can still easily kill them by force firing on their location, right?

And I think that the Zerg can counter an individual base a lot better in Starcraft 2. Just use Nydus Worms, they can emerge anywhere you want now. That makes avoiding their allies a lot more easy. Further, you can use Infestors to harras enemy bases. -assuming that the opponent uses little detection and that they can infest buildings again in the final version-

 

Aurora that would make Lurkers unuseable against Terran (at least how they were used in SC1), so I dont think you will be able to splash them that way.

 

That does make me wonder though, will the tank have an 'Attack-Ground' Button?

Oh, this may be off topic but anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WvyqCHCVTY&feature=channel_page some real nice muta micro there. Not the match i wanted to find but i cbf looking.

 

I have seen the game, nice strategy by by.hero (off-topic for the win =)

 

Hmm, you are right. I just hope they will at least be killed when a nuke hits them. Or a psionic storm.

 

by.hero... What a machine! Anyways, Good muta micro should suffice. If you can still stack them and shoot-move in Starcraft 2.

 

I think there will be multiple ways to compete with tanks, but personally, from my understanding of how the game works on paper, I would go hydras and zlings mixed with some banelings, then focus, on hitting expos to make them unsiege and disrupt formation.
I see no reason why hydras and lings cant stand up to tanks, and the banelings punish macro players for not targeting the banes, even if ppl try to deal with the banes.
Seeing as how tanks cant move and attack effectively at the same time, and tanks shoot really slow, if i have handful of banes its likely in gonna nail something unless they run(which is also good for zerg)

 

The Siege Tank is one of those units that differs from "theoretical" battles to actual fights. It's not like Marine vs. Hydralisk where you can easily calculate range, damage, and HP and say the Hydralisk will win.

The tank's positioning is so important to its effectiveness that a player's skill with Terran units greatly influences the Zerg player's required strategy. A less-skilled player can be countered simply with force. But against a more experienced player you're going to need more finesse.

Now let me preface this by saying that in the original StarCraft is no direct ground counter to the siege tank. It's explicit purpose is to be the be-all end-all for ground units. This is changing in StarCraft 2 with the introduction of the Immortal, but that doesn't benefit Zerg all that much.

So what's the answer? I really can't say for sure until I actually get my hands on the game for more than 24 hours, but I believe it's going to be an indirect counter much as it is in StarCraft 1. You will need to outsmart, outposition, and outproduce your Terran opponents just as you would with any other.

Mutalisks, of course, are a great counter. But they are also, in turn, counterable. Banelings as well. It's the age old question of who can counter whom more effectively. Now, what I might suggest are two options:

Ground - Use a combination of Lurkers, Banelings, Zerglings, Roaches and Hydralisks. The Zerglings and Roaches are basically there to absorb tank fire. Use more Roaches than Zerglings as the Zerglings stack closely and can be killed rather easily by tanks. Bring your Hydralisks and Lurkers in behind your primary forces as long-range support. Don't forget the Lurker has a ridiculous range in StarCraft 2. Banelings should be used against any support units as they're not that great against Tanks, but you can use them as you see fit.

Air - Go for the Mutalisk, of course, but you might want to consider an early tech to Swarm Guardians. While expensive and difficult to tech there I really think the Swarm Guardian in its current build is going to be the end of the Siege Tank's use in Tier 3 battles. The Swarm Guardian spawns Broodlings every time it fires which exploits possibly the Siege Tank's biggest weakness: friendly fire. By confusing the fire of the enemy you can destroy huge numbers of tanks from long range unless your opponent is EXTREMELY diligent and keeps his troops well disciplined which is unlikely if his tanks are properly spread. This can end a battle without your even losing troops.

 

And in the case the tanks are cluttered:
Pop up a Nydus Worm behind them -assuming this still goes fast- and let some banelings out. Might be a little more expensive, but you are in mid game and will save a lot of other units.

 

Lol Aurora, you would have to pop that Nydus way out of range. A singular building or unit would be torn to shreds before it could do a thing.