How counter terran and toss WALL with zerg

On early game
Yea, im zerg player and i like fast and early rush based game style.
The biggest problem is The Terran and Protoss WALLS, some ramps are so small that it can be blocked by just 2 buildings, toss uses sometimes units to help make a compete wall.

Its impossible to force rush it with early zerg army from my expirience.

I try to some early drone harashment to try make it harder to build but they just come with another bulider and its done.

Benelingss are too expensive to force it to crush

Its there is no way to counter the wall on early game?
Is a only option to wait to T2 and try to use nydus worm or overseers with transport option? I want to fight faster.

Its so easy to them at this point, expecialy for Terrans, just 1 marine over the wall and 1 scv to repair and its done, he is full protected for a long time
its there any option to counter early wall strategy at early game?
thx

 

Simplest counter: Change your tactic! Good gameplay comes from changing to whats necessery. Gladly there isn't a "counter" to "anti-rush-wallin" since if there were, every game would be over within a few minutes won by zerg player. Everyone would only play zerg, game got imbalanced etc,

So, try to learn something new. You won't get anywhere with only one tactic!

 

Early on? Probably not unless you baneling bust, other than that, hit his rocks ( if he has any).

It may seem like all hope is lost, but heres the deal with walling in.
He is stuck in his base. Use this, expand and tech up, if he is stuck on one base, while your on two, three, or maybe even 4. This will provide you with enough economy to keep producing those higher tier units.

 

I think walling is abuse, Blizz should remove it from the game and make ramps and paths wider

 

Are you joking Pio? Or no.

 

Baneling busts are one answer to the problem. Also, sometimes Protoss players don't tell their Zealot to hold ground and you can get them to chase you out of position so you can just run around the Zealot into their base.

I wouldn't say that a walled in player is stuck to one base. Assuming by "wall in" you mean with Terran they have their structures set up so units can't get through, but they can drop a Supply Depot to get by. Compared with Protoss that they have their building set up so one Zealot can block the path to the base.

This won't hinder the player from expanding or attacking at all really. It'll just keep you out.

I don't consider it abuse either. It's obvious Blizzard expects people to wall off with at least Terran, otherwise Supply depots wouldn't be able to drop. So it isn't a surprise. I also don't think it's imbalanced either. I play Zerg and get by fine without walling. So does Idra, Sen, Artosis, and Machine.

 

Baneling bust is the essential wall wrecking unit for zerg....

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..... But I can see why you would want to try a different approach. My best recommendation would be mutalisks and drops because if you can time it right, you can either win the game then and there, or you can seriously damage his economy. If he goes towers: drops are a fantastic way to blow by them because they cant hit air.

So, thats one way to go about it. Also, there is the time consuming but extremely satisfying brood lord method where you get your brood lord juuuust out of range of towers while you let the little ones do their work.

All in all, as long as you make the terran player FEEL like leaving his base would be a bad idea, you can just drain him and win the war of attrition.

 

What I find hard to gauge but is essential to know is how muhc ressources is he putting into turtling.

The more base defense he does, it gives you that much more money to expand. Once you've expanded twice, you can double the ammount of money your putting into your macro.

My problem is that I'm not good at gauging this and knowing "am I investing too much in tech right now?" Because if you do, you'll be under army size wise and loose pretty quickly if he comes out of turtling before your ready. or "Should I be creating 4 more Hydras?" then you might be under tech when he comes out with BC (not enought corruptor ready)

G.I. Joe said it once and it's still true. "Knowing is half the battle!"

 

Walling is not abused and it is not turtling.
As toss I will wall with cannons until i have robo bay or Stargate going, then fire at my own cannon to unblock and come expand. If you see wall early expand, that simple, but a good player would scout this and harass, I normally send about three zels to annoy early expand after they see my wall and turn.
I am truly amazed a player is upset because their (fools mate) early very easily preformed rush tactic has a counter. This would be like a Toss player annoyed that cannon rush can be blocked by scouting and good micro.
Their is reason players over gold league stop ling rushing.

 

As I don't want to open a new thread: What is the zerg counter against stalkers? (as they together with zealots and immortals often follow a wall in)

 

Zerglings kill stalkers. I like to use banelings to take out sentries and some zealots, roaches eat remaining zealots and zerglings rush in to the stalkers. Immortals are bad against zerglings too (I think). Also, if you have some mutalisks and take out his stalkers with the zerglings, you can easily dispatch of the immortals with mutas.

My own question? Zerg counter against 6-pool rush by other zerg player. Since scoutings takes too long to adapt in time, the only solution I came up with, is doing a 6-pool myself. Any ideas? It's annoying.

 

If he six pools he wreaks his eco early. Use your drones to fend off the zerglings while you get a pool up. As soon as you get a queen covered by a few lings his rush is hopeless, and he'll be way behind on eco.

 

I tried to kill the (6) zerglings with the drones, but they were all destroyed. Bad micro?

 

What you could do is make an early pool and rush about 4 zerglings to his base kill SCVs and delay his ''wall''.

 

Well, the rule is, if you need to fend off zerglings with your workers, don't ever chase after the zerglings if they run. Just keep mining. The only time you should attack is if the zerglings run straight into your mineral line.

If all they do is try and pick off drones at the edges one at a time, just run that drone to the other side of the mineral line. This forces the opponent to make a choice, either keep trying to slowly pick off drones while your own zerglings hatch, or fully commit to a frontal attack of 6 zerglings vs 12-14 bunched up drones... and that is not a very favorable fight for the lings.

 

He ran just into my drones, I must have targetet one unreachable zergling with all of them selected, they just roamed around and were killed. 4 of the 6 zerglings survived, none of my drones. I must have done something very stupid

 

Yeah,banelings and speedlings,they are definately not too expensive,try it! =) Also vs terran,sometimes they don't build many marines,they feel untouchable. 6-8lings with 8 more as backup can bust the wall and end the game more often than you think....It's a lot about timing,too

 

@Heidegger
speed lings, hydras, and raoches is a good counter, if you aren't slow, you should be able to pump more units than the protoss.

@Piorun
change your game style, you cheap scrub. This is a macro + micro based game, not fastest rusher.
if you rush, and they are walled off securely, you are automatically behind. You don't know what you are talking about banelings being too expensive (i get them same time as my speedling upgrade). If he's turtling, you gotta make sure he is, then you expand.

@Logos
you are also are falling behind making cannons, 150 for forge, 300 for 2 cannons (im assuming you are building at least 2). I would easily bust through your defense before you get a decent army... especially if you are teching all the way to robo ROFL. As soon as I see a player get cannons, automatic win for me because ill have immortals before you do. don't cannon. The best defense is a good offense right? believe it or not, it applies to SC too.

@VodkaChill
you need to mass up as many units as possible, and when you tech up, your majority of units should still be your tier 1 and 1.5 units. Example: if your opponent is going marine marauder, you should have more zealots stalkers and only a few immortals to counter the marauders, and not mostly immortals.

 

@cHowzilla

Actually, I think rushing is fine. I send in a few lings in the beginning to do some harassment. If my opponent can't beat a simple ling harass then that's their fault. Also, zerg players send in lings to test their opponents waters. If it looks hopeless, they just retreat. If it fails by a wall or a larger force, then big deal, I just keep on playing.

Note: I'm not referring to cheese builds for Zerg. I have plenty of drones for a stable economy.
BTW. Managing your base while doing a proper early harass/attack IS good macro + micro silly



@OP
There are a couple of options for walls.
1)Baneling bust
2) Fast Muta harass on workers
3) Early Roach Push

Try not to let them expand and keep a constant eye on what they're building. If the player loses quickly to one of these, they are most likely a player below your level. Those who fend you off are either at your level or higher, resulting in a longer game.

 

@Hodl pu

I realize rushing is fine, but if you read carefully what Piorun is asking, he doesn't want to alternatively keep the macro game going, he wants to end it right then, probably trying to avoid the macro game.