my freind is a toss player, and im zerg player. we are about equal skill, but ZvP is my worst match up. i recently found a strategy that seems to work, which is go econ in the beggining, expand fast, and continue to expand, while spamming and uprgrading lings and roaches. i can attack, lose the attack, but have enough units being made so he cant succesfuly counter attack this has worked so far.. but he is yet to build any air units against me, and im totally unprepared for an air attack. should u just build a few missile launchers to play it safe? or if he goes air, am i going to be able to just steamroll over his base with my ground army? any advice would be nice, or even an alternative strategy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huo7VQdIz3I Thats the main strategy I use again protoss. Obviously you variate it depending on what the protoss is doing.
speedlings/roaches/infestors, he's not going to be able to build any legit air against you if you keep a substantial ground presence, which shoudl be easy if you go FE. Fungal parasite + Infested terrans will roflstomp any small harass oriented air attack like 1-2 void rays or a carrier. keep in mind a similar approach to zvt exists for zvp. you want to maintain a 1-2 base advantage during zvp games as well.
Well i usually go Speedling-Hydralisk into Hydralisk-Ultralisk Im always agressive early on and i allways make sure that he has no more than 2 bases while i have the rest of the map and it works pretty much everytime ^^
What you want to do is 14 pool 15 Hatch as a Fast expand if you don't scout two gateways. Then at the 5 minute mark, send an overlord in his base and check for stargates or gateways. If you see gateways build 4 spine crawlers at your expo. If you see stargates put up and evo chamber and try to tech to hydras.
Roaches/hydras to ultras/hydras is stronger, since slings/hydras would get stomped by a mass zealot army. It would be better if they mass sentries too, then you can burrow your roaches and move underneath the force fields to keep your army together. Definitely agreed on the FE and map control though, very important.
thanks for all the replies. when is the earliest toss air attack? because that just seems like the one counter to anything that i might do. am i able to have hyddra's out by his first air attack. and what does FE mean?
FE stands for fast expand, something along the lines of 14 pool 15 hatch for zerg. I do not know when the earliest possible protoss air attack is, but you can definitely get hydras out in time if you tech fast enough. If you want to get your hydras out a bit later then you can also just get a few spore colonies at your worker line. Spore colonies will repel early 1-2 void ray rushes and give you time to build an army to counter with. The problem here is of course, if protoss does not get air and has a very strong ground force then hydras will not suffice to defend against it. Whereas, if protoss does get air and you neglect your tech, you will not have any hydras to counter the air. So, the key is to scout early and often, try to keep a close eye on what buildings/units the protoss is making and then you will have a good idea of what you can counter with. Generally, a good idea could be to mutate your lair after your queen spawns and then build a hydra den as soon as it is done. Its good to have a hydra den even if you're not producing hydras yet, so that if you get surprised by air its not too hard to quickly build up an anti air force.
Fast expand can be risky with zealot pressure, I have had success with one base ling/bling pressure/econ dmg early then expanding and teching. Having a few 3-5 queens between your two bases means you can defend some air pressure while you get hydra's or spores. I generally avoid muta's in zvp (what do you guys think?) just seems they are so easily crushed by warped in stalks and you waste your money. Ultra's are a Z's best friend in this match up too I reckon. But yeah this is my toughest matchup too. HuskyHD does a good instructional vid on how to defend against a 4 gate with a FE, spines and evo chambers to block ur entrace. Scouting those voids is key though, my mate can get them out in under 6 min.. hence the early ling/bling pressure...
FE is definitely vulnerable to early zealot pressure, but a spine crawler and a queen will go a long way for early defenses. Past that, roaches work wonders against zealots and you should be able to fend them off. I avoid mutas like the plague in most ZVP matchups, they're just not built to face stalkers, and the stalker is such a staple protoss unit. Also, agreed on ultras being a great unit vs protoss...as long as you keep up army production and don't get caught trying to tech too fast. I think the roach is also a great unit vs protoss though. It's really only countered well by immortals, air, and sometimes big stalker armies. A supplementary sling army can handle both immortals and stalkers quite easily, with optional infestors vs big stalker armies to prevent blinking and running. Roaches are also particularly useful in your army if your enemy produces multiple colossi to splash down lings and hydras. They're pretty resilient to colossi, and if there's no observer around then you can burrow underneath the army and snipe the colossi from behind. I'm still a big advocate of that early hydra den though, that way if your opponent springs an air attack on you, its only necessary to stall while one cycle of hydras spawn. Waiting for the den, or even worse...waiting for the lair, could end up costing you. Roaches/slings/safety hydra den => roaches/slings/hydras => ultras/slings/hydras is the way to go vs protoss IMO .
^ Agree with Crymorenoob on most of his stuff. But Mutalisks is a fine unit to mass up against Protoss, it's true stalkers do good against it, but that's why you have Zerglings to begin with = Mutalings. But Hydralisks are just as badass, just can't harass mineral lines as good as Mutas. The 3-4ish main units I end up using against P really is lings, roaches, infestors, and mutalisks. If game gets any longer I go ultralisks.
http://www.mediafire.com/?kxvj8acf55etx8f http://www.mediafire.com/?iy0okue0zdyzt22 Some examples of roach/sling, although I didn't encounter air in either match up. Edit: I know I went on and on about an early hydra den, but it's not always necessary if you can scout and ensure your opponent isn't getting air.
Thanks, I hear what you're saying about mutalings and it's a great point. I'm probably just too used to going economy/spine and rushing mutas myself (vs terran for instance) rather than a decent sling/muta force. I'll definitely try a proper mutaling game vs toss some time.
Yeah I usually go Mutalings more often against P, but on T is when I hydra/roach + banelings with like 2 infestors But I do tend to often make roaches before mutalisks against P.. Here are some replays vs other Diamond Protoss players. I probably messed up a couple times with things but yeah. Enjoy! xD http://www.mediafire.com/file/74b4876b7kjucfc/ZvP Diamond Rank 10.SC2Replay http://www.mediafire.com/file/9875nz24he5uqmh/ZVP Diamond Rank 25.SC2Replay
Cool replays, I haven't had many toss seal my entrance and FE recently, I mostly see gate/cyber => 4gate which is why I've been opting for roach/sling. Well played with the spines though hehe. Lol i probably messed up in my replays too, no judgements here.
Yes as of lately, a lot of protoss been trying to do that. And It doesn't bother me at all. I just change strategies or destroy it. I was able to send out an early drone in one of the replays and that helped me get a sneaky expansion. Lings/Roaches though is usually what it is against Protoss. I've played a couple where they just copy and early expand as well. That one is a toughie.
