Help me out with my Zerg strategy?

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Strategy Discussion' started by NumberSeven, Jun 6, 2011.

Help me out with my Zerg strategy?

  1. NumberSeven

    NumberSeven New Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WkdDL7odKg

    An example of my ZvT gameplay is there above, i provided it in 720p for you :D. It is annotated with what i was thinking roughly at the time, how i reacted, what was my thought process. This is perhaps my 2nd or 3rd Terran game since starting again


    I got SC2 on release, i played a fair bit, was high gold league terran player. back then there was no platinum and no masters and etc, so i'm not sure if i was actually a platinum player or what.

    I'd been very casually following the game over a while, watching a few favorites replays on YT. i decided to make a comeback now i have some time on my hands. I was inspired to start playing Zerg by Spanishiwa (<:3)

    The only current build i know is labelled "Destiny's unbeatable ZvZ build" on youtube, its a video of ROOTdestiny teaching a player this build, which according to him at one point "Congratulations, you've won every ZvZ up to grandmaster". The only build that has beaten me is the same build done better hehe. So lets ignore dodgy mirror matches here.

    I just need Zerg help. I'm better than where i used to be (upon immediate comeback, and i was pretty bad then hehe), and i held a few games successfully against high gold terran(read: One game. the rest are losses) and platinum zerg (i was promoted to platinum league) but am struggling. I have yet to win a game against protoss, and have been demoted to gold league for some embarrassing losses to Terran. (my games against toss are always a bit closer than some of my failures against terran, but i still lose xD)

    What i need help on, is when to scout, when to sac that overlord to see what the enemy is doing, what tells does he present? lets say i see 4 gateways (obviously 4 gate, even i know that, but lets use it as an example) what does that mean to me? (Extrapolate this, i know what a 4gate is.)

    Any zerg tips or references to good learning material, post it here, as well as answers to the above and analysis on my general gameplay (a link provided and the video annotated by myself). There are 2 other videos on that channel, but both are Vs Zerg and i have no problem with that, and win often enough.


    EDIT: So i also checked out Day 9. i didn't know who he was lol. Mr-B + Day9's amazing mechanics videos like number 252 (i just learnt everything i was doing wrong. i'm starting to correct and noticing MASSIVE differences). is a lot of help. Thanks so much Stirlitz! you lead me to both. However now i still need some quick reads and stuff because day 9's and mr-b's videos are EXTREMELY (capitalisation for emphasis!) long. especially the 2 and a half hour mr-b ones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  2. Stirlitz

    Stirlitz Member

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    Hmmmm... I'll get some learning material for you tonight if I find some time, bro, just came home from exams and I'm in need of some rest...

    Till then, here's an awesome series of Mr.Bitter being coached by various pros on every matchup... It's probably the best video source on learning material asside from day9's channel, but there's some good reads too out there, but I ain't got them on my mind right now...

    http://blip.tv/learn-from-the-pros-with-mr-b
     
  3. NumberSeven

    NumberSeven New Member

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    Thank's mate, you're a legend :D
     
  4. MastoJira

    MastoJira New Member

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    Long as they are, they're still extremely helpful. There're too much analysis and examples to miss out!

    Just a heads up, I'm only a lowly silver league Zerg, so buckle up for some sub-par advice :)

    As mentioned in your analysis, the fast lair was unnecessary. Since you knew the comp your opponent was going, it would've been more beneficial to delay it, pump more drones (your nat was painfully unsaturated for a while) and get a nice ling+baneling or ling+roach. You just didn't have enough drones to support a lair and 4 gas at that point. I also noticed you only poked the ramp once with the drone, which was good. But I would've hoped you would follow up with another poke with your inital lings to get a glimpse of his army count. Our larvae management is incredibly crucial for us know when it's safe to drone up or just pump out an army. That's why I usually keep a ling in front of an opponent's ramp, so I would drone like a madman, get a major economic boost, see the push as soon as he exits the ramp, and have barely enough time to prepare adequately (depends on the map and spawn positions). As for knowing when to sac an overlord, I'm not 100% sure on the specifics. But personally, I found that saccing an ovie somewhere between the 5-6 minute is decent as far as revealing tech goes. I typically place my overlords in a ring formation around an opponent's base. It's just more convenient for me to simply poke with an ovie, get some decent scouting in, and recede quickly.

    In addition, your macro was slipping. I'm not sure if it was just that particular game or in general, but it seemed like you were missing some transfusions and larvae stacking. After you held off the first push and chasing some stray marines, you had no production whatsoever, which is a major factor leading to something like 2000 min 700 gas. Especially during that final push, your production was moot for quite a while as your lings were getting ripped to shreds. You had the larvae to reinforce, and you were banking almost 4k minerals. You gotta keep that production constant, whether it's pumping drones, reinforcing, etc. In that particular game, you could've put a macro hatch for the additional larvae, expand and extend your economic lead, get some upgrades for your lings, or simply pump more ovies to increase your food count, mere examples. In short, you just need to spend your money better.

    As Day9 taught me, don't take this and decide to simply go for another tech path right away yet. Just focus on fine-tuning the fundamentals first (constant injection, reinforcements, drone timings, creep spread, overlord placement, etc.). If it helps, make a mental checklist. Also, what are your control groups? I only saw 1 and 2 being used earlier, but I didn't see anything else for the rest of the game.

    TL;DR
    -Constantly inject larvae
    -Constantly spread creep
    -Spread your overlords for more optimal map view
    -Keep up production, especially during an attack
    -Poke the ramp some more
    -Drone up when necessary (Day9 #194)
    -Make a mental checklist of the above
    -Watch more Day9 and Mr. Bitter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
  5. Stirlitz

    Stirlitz Member

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    MastoJira's post reminded me that I completely forgot to add those links I promised here... I'm in the middle of exams for the whole June though so I don't really have such things as forums and stuff on my mind lately...

    Here's an old post I made with some useful links on the topic:

    http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?p=393339


    In addition to this, check out MastoJura's link on the drone timing day9 daily as well as the links on the above thread, and the more recent newbie tuesdays(the ones which are of general or zerg interrest, that is) here:

    -A simple ZvZ build
    -On refining game mechanics part 1
    -On refining game mechanics part 2
    -On using infestors and probably one of my favourites which is
    -on how to learn and improve



    Also here's a list of readable material from the TeamLiquid forums:

    1)A list that sums up all recommended threads on improving - really incredible
    2)how to get better by SlayersBaekHo
    3)Zerg basics
    4)Mechanics of SC2 by some german guy who's mod over a german forum
    5)Chill's guide to self-improvement
    6)CecilSunkure's guide on improving on 1vs1
    7)How to analyze replays by Plexa and
    8)On positioining and formations by TimeSpiral


    But the most important component is to practice. I've read all of the above stuff and can give good tips to friends about sc on almost any topic, but I suck at the game since I play very very little(got around ~4-4.5 games averaged per week since launch and while there were some periods where I played quite a bit and improved a lot, there were others like now where I haven't played for like 2-3 months due to lack of enough time to commit on improving)...

    But yeah, I think that you'll find all of these quite useful...


    Sorry for the late reply again, but my exams are taking quite a toll on my free time lately.... Cheers and happy ranking up:)