Ever since the removal of the Goliath and the Wraith, the Terran really have weak anti-air. They only have a couple of units: Marine 40 Hp (+20 with Marine Combat Shields) 6 Dmg (+3 with upgrades) 0 Armor (+3 with upgrades) Stim Packs (research) U-598 Shells (?) (research) WOW. Used to do 2 damage to a fully upgraded Ultralisk/Carrier. Ghost 35 HP 10 Dmg (+3 or +6 with upgrades) 0 Armor (+3 with upgrades) Concussive Damage Personal Cloaking (research) Lockdown (?) (research) Snipe EMP Shockwave (?) (research?) Probably no more lockdown. Concussive damage will kill it. 1/4 damage against Large units. Maruader? Thor 400 HP (?) ? DMG ? Armor Explosive Damage (?) Artillery Barrage (?) (research?) (useless against air) I heard this unit got nerfed. Still probably an overpriced and underused, glorified Goliath. Viking ? HP ? DMG ? Armor ? Upgrades Transform (research?) Severely nerfed. Can't even hold its own on air or on the ground. Battlecruiser 500 HP (?) 25 DMG (?) (+9 with upgrades?) ? Armor Yamato Gun (research) Plasma Torpedoes (research) (useless against air) Rockets??? (research) This unit was also weakened. Along with the Thor, it is at the top of the tech tree. It'll be really late to stop those Mutalisks. Missile Turret 200 HP (?) 6 DMG (?) ? Armor Just as useless as ever. Not even a detector anymore. Anything can kill these. So, what do you think?
Two things you need to do before this topic is disscussed. First you need to look up the new damage system being implemented in Sc2, there is no longer cuncussion and explosive damage. Second you need to look up the new version of the Thor.
do we know how many upgrades will be possible? I know in the original star craft one could upgrade weapons and armor to level 2 and L3, but Ive always wish for there to be no limit in how far one could upgrade, just increase res required to do it..
The Thor's shoulders have been esthetically modified. Will there still be their huge canons from their back ? They give considerable damages on ground units and structures. How can they attack air units ? Do they already ? They are the new Goliath so ...
I'm basing this off of StarCraft: Brood War statistics and what I remember from the earlier reports. I was pretty sure the Thor had 400 HP before though. They will probably increase the max upgrade level from 255 (256 levels) to something higher that is an exponent of 2.
Vikings replace Wraiths in anti-air. They're about as powerful and cost about the same. I think they have 5 more hit points. They're pretty good against battlecruisers, dealing +8 damage vs them. They're also not total crap vs ground. Viking stats: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Viking - you can't say they're nerfed, they deal at least 20 damage vs air units, even smaller ones like the mutalisk. (Wraiths did 10 damage vs mutalisks.) Your stats on the ghost are so out-of-date. Marauders can't target air. Thors deal 16 damage vs air, which seems lame, until you realize they hit areas. Battlecruisers deal 64 damage. Missile turrets deal 10 damage, + 10 vs armored units. This is most air units, such as carriers, battlecruisers, vikings, etc. In fact, when you compare the different damage types, the new missile turret has the exact same stats as the old ones. It probably feels like I'm spamming, but please look at that wiki in my signature. It has stats on all the units. Sometimes the stats are a little out of date, but you won't see 6 damage when you should see 20! Note on upgrades: In non-UMS maps, you can only upgrade 3 times, just like in StarCraft I.
AH!!! so many errors or N / As that have already been known. Marine : no longer has an upgrade for their range, instead they start out with the range of 6. also(since so many differ and had to go to Wiki) the Shield adds 40 more health to the Marines. Ghost : have 100 HP. does 10 base damage + 15 vs light. does not have lockdown or EMP, and Snipe was changed to Psi Round, which does 20 base damage + 80 vs Psiconic units. Marauder cant attack air, so thats fine. Thor : HP is fine. they do 4 + 2 vs armored x by 4(this damage is only vs air). armor is one. Artillery Barrage is no longer in the game. Viking : AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! total blank. they have 125 HP. they do 10+8 vs massive x by 2(only vs air units, can only be done in air mode). armor is 1. need no upgrades. Battlecruiser : HP be fine. they do 8x8 damage vs anything. armor is 3. Yamato is fine. the Torpedoes are no longer in the game. they have Missile barrage : which is a anti mass air ability, and they have Defensive Matrix, which can only be cast on self and gives them 200 more health while in effect( can only pick one of those 3 abilities for each battlecruiser). *from all i heard this unit is overpowered instead* Missile Turret : HP is 250. armor is unknown(probably 1 like most buildings). and they do 5+2.5 vs medium and +5 vs armored x by 2. anyway now that that is all done, GIVE BLIZZARD TIME!!! you need to give blizzard time to get everything into balance, not everyone of their builds are going to be perfect, things will get much more even when they go into Beta. *glares at Kimera757 sig. and wishes to banish it to limbo*
And its all incredibly inaccurate. Why on earth do you go around making broad claims which could easily be refuted by a dozen different fact sources, including a database on this very website? Ok, first off, the Concussive/Explosive junk has been disposed of. Instead, units deal a flat damage, with bonus damage against certain targets, most commonly vs. Light units, which are the equivalent of Small units, and vs. Armored units, which are equivalent to Large units. For example, the Missile Turret did 20 Explosive damage in SC1, and 10 damage +10 vs. Armored in SC2, functionally the same. Note that if an attack does A*B damage +C vs. a given target, it deals A*B+C*B against the target. To review, the Mutalisk, Phoenix, Observer, and Interceptor are the only Light air units. Everything else is armored. Carriers have 4 Defense, Battlecruisers have 3 Defense, Motherships and Guardians have 2 Defense, every other armored unit has 1 Defense, to my knowledge. Terran units that are effective against air: Marines: 6 damage, high ROF, can be mass produced cheaply and fast, good upgrades Viking: 10*2 Damage, +8 vs. Massive(Carriers, Mothership, Battlecruiser) Thor: 4*4 damage, +2 vs. Armored, hits a large AOE, outranges Guardian, ton of HP Battlecruiser: 8*8 damage volley at a low ROF, ton of HP, can be upgraded to fire a Missile Barrage that is effective against mass weak air units, Yamato Gun that can take out heavy ones in one shot, or Defensive Matrix that increases HP further. Ghost: Cloaks, deals good damage vs. Light Air, can call down nukes that can wipe out fleets of capital ships. One prominent thing to note is that every single one of those units can also be used effectively against ground units. Marines are Marines, Vikings can switch to ground form, where they can shred light ground, Thors can outfight its weight in Immortals and Archons while having the best HP in the game, and Battlecruisers have vastly improved HP and DPS along with flexible upgrades. So, in short, read a freaking wiki, and stop whining until you can cite real evidence, not hopelessly outdated references.
Wodan, calm down. Thanks for the info, but you don't need to jump all over him for this. And listen to Lurk when he said give blizzard time. It'll be fine, have faith in our game gods.
to Arvendragon: use the Starcraft Wiki if you want any more information on units and damage mechanics. It's not always completely up-to-date, but tends to have more accurate information than most fansites.
That kind of writing (eg you'll see 10 x2 + 8 vs massive when you hold the mouse over the appropriate part of a Viking's UI) drove me up the wall Could you tell me a bit more about this? (Eg did you play StarCraft II and test this? Or read this somewhere?)
To clarify, the Viking is indicated to do 10*2 damage, +8 vs. Massive. This means that against Massive units, it deals 18*2 damage, for a net of 36 damage before the Defense penalty is applied twice. Another way of putting it is that for an attack that deals damage*X times, you apply its Bonus and the enemy's Defense X times as well. This is supported by people who played SC2, as well as common sense. For example the Thor deals 4*4 damage, +2 vs. Armored. If the Armored bonus only applied once and not 4 times, it is of virtually no value, and it will be nowhere near sufficient in allowing the Thor to deal decent damage to Armored fliers.
I was going to tear you up over the inaccuracies, but i see my work's already be done The thor fires its cannons 4 times in every attack 'cycle' so it can be assumed every shot has all bonuses. I'm sure if this is the case with units like the viking, were the 2 attacks always target the same unit and hit at the same time so it is effectively one attack.
In starcraft Terrans were known for their defense in games, and Blizzard will most likely keep these same advantages in SC2. IMO, Terrans will probably only suffer against Air on Offense(base raiding). Besides Vikings, most of the Terran units that can counter air are relatively slow. Thor moves at the speed of a siege tank, Marines take a hike and Battlecruisers are... slow. Basically, most of the Terran anti-air units are relatively immobile, and will suffer during mid-late games on offense. Viking units are probably the Terrans more mobile unit, but they cannot attack ground units when they're in Air form, and in their ground form they're relatively weak. To sum it all, Terrans anti-air units are usually slow, immobile or ground units walking on average speed. Although this isn't worrying on defense, it could become a problem on offense. Though how often do you see SC players going air raid with Terrans ;
But still, other than Vikings, Turrets and Marines, and I believe the Vikings in ground form can not attack air, they have little AA in the early game.\ (goes to research) WOW I AM OUT OF DATE. THANK YOU BLIZZARD FOR NOT UPDATING STARCRAFT2.COM!
How is different from any other side. Lets review the AA units that each side has in the first Tier: Zerg: NOTHING Protoss: Secondary Tier 1 Unit(Stalker) Terran: Primary Tier 1 Unit(Marine) In short, the Terrans have the best early game AA, because their basic combat unit can attack air, in addition to being effective against ground, as well as being produced at a rate of 1 per 10 seconds from a Barracks-Reactor, and can hide in Bunkers. In comparison, the Zerg have absolutely nothing until they get a Hydralisk in Tier 2, while the Protoss have the Stalker, which is fairly expensive, and not as efficient a unit as the Zealot is, to say nothing of the Marine. Furthermore, while it is true that Marines and Thors will suck against capital ships, those units appear much later, where you will have already obtained Vikings to deal with them. In the mean time, Marines can easily kill their weight in Mutalisks, Banshees, and Void Rays, all of which have 0-1 defense and low HP for their cost. For example, compare a Marine to a Mutalisk. 4 Marines have at least 160 HP, while dealing 6*4=24 damage at a fast rate. The Mutalisk costs the same as those Marines, but has 120 HP and deals 9+3+1=13 damage at a normal rate. After the upgrades to health and stim packs, it isn't even a contest. The Terrans have are most vulnerable to Armored Units with high Defense, which the Marine/Thor are ineffective against, but which are not Massive, meaning that the Viking isn't effective against it either. There is exactly 1 unit that meets such a description, the Guardian. Fortunately, they cost 400 resources, appear in Tier 3 only, and can be 1 shotted by a Yamato. While it is true that it is not updated, it has never had specific unit statistics, whereas other websites have given plenty of it.
