Hey guys, The main problem I seem to be having lately is knowing when to properly expand, when, and by how much. Usually upon reaching another player's base, I find they expanded much more than I did. Playing Protoss, what point do you guys usually expand? A second question: How many probes do you guys find appropriate? I know 3 probes to every vespene geyser you control, but is there a certain ratio or something to follow? Maybe an easy question for some of you, but I just recently started playing melee maps, and have always stuck to UMS in the past. Thanks in advance.
Typically, you should expand after you mass your first wave of units and can cover any ground the expansion takes over by either stunning your opponent or defending a wave of attacks. There really is no limit to how much or how aggressively you expand assuming the expansions you place are intelligent and capable of being defended. I find it easiest to expand with toss and zerg because zerg build quickly and cheaply and toss can use photon cannons to mass a defense easily on a new expansion. Terran it is much trickier. Gotta bring the units with you and possibly build barracks or turrets to make an adequate defense.
Oh, and as far as probes go, I like to keep it at around 15-25 per base with two of those economies active at any given time.
I expand when I see that I am getting some excess minerals, but not enough gas. If you keep up on your weapon/armor upgrades and tech, it will happen rather soon.
I expand: - after holding off an attack - after winning a fight, but not enough to finish the game. - when i can't spend my money fast enough - when i see spend my money easily and that my opponent has gotten one. - when my opponent is turtling. scouting helps you find out whether it is a good time.
I've posted this elsewhere: I think there are three kinds of expansions: (1) the advantage expansion, (2) the distraction expansion, and (3) the gamble expansion. The Advantage Expansion--This is when you think you have the advantage over your opponent and he can't stop you from expanding. You can expand (relatively) safely because there is nothing he can do about it. Examples of this kind of expansion are the Zerg early expand, expanding because your opponent overspent on static defense, expanding after a successful hold or attack, or expanding after you have teched to a specific unit that your opponent can't counter yet. The Distraction Expansion--This is when you expand while distracting your opponent. It is safe for you to expand because your opponent is distracted and won't know it. You distract your opponent with a direct assault (but be careful not to lose too many forces) or a harassment attack. Another example of this is expanding in response to an opponent's expansion, since you know they will be distracted by setting up their own defenses. The Gamble Expansion--Sometimes you just have to expand to make things interesting. It is not safe for you to expand, but you're going to do it anyway because you came to play. Gamble expansions can be particularly effective if they are in places unlikely to be scouted.
Expanding with no air support is probably the biggest mistake as a terran you can make. If void rays come by you are done
sorry no, you just need anti-air (stalkers/marines/hydras/turrets/cannons/spore colonies) i only get air if i need it, cuz in a straight up mid-game macro fight, ground > air
I play Terran, and I've actually come to make my macro/expanding one of the strong points of my game. I think as a general rule for Protoss/Terran, you should take your natural expansion after either an effective push, or an effective defense. As long as you know that your opponent does not have a force ready to send, you will almost always be safe to expand, given that you can continue to produce troops smoothly as well. Also, on maps where there are a couple mineral fields that are well off the main route between you and your opponents, you can usually safely expand to them in the mid-game, however better players will keep constant tabs on all your expansions, Zerg especially, so you generally judge whether or not that's a good idea by each opponent.
Is there a good time in the game to expand or is it just based on whats going on in the game? For instance, from watching my replays, I almost never expand till like 15 minutes in (playing Protoss). Is this too slow in general or what?
Will.cfalcon, it almost ALWAYS is based on what is going on in the game. But, 15 minutes (while not excessively late) is still a bit late to do so if there has been action in a game. Often times when you are playing you will find that there is a battle that occurs that leaves one side stronger, but not strong enough to attempt to finish the game, the winner of that engagement should attempt to expand to take advantage of their safe position. Sometimes though, you may find that you are in a bad position that you feel you cannot get out of with just 1 base, in the event of that situation occurring you should also expand because you have nothing to lose. I know that wasn't explained well but a lot of it comes down to "feeling" the flow of the game, which really comes from experience and seeing many situations happen.
Thanks dude. Usually when I'm playing, there is the first battle, with small numbers of units, then if I win, i build up to crush their second attack. Then i expand. As a protoss player, a feel the need to expand earlier to get more gas pumping, but it always seems like I need those minerals to build up my army for the second fight. After that, its already 15 minutes in and I feel like im expanding too late. It's just hard to know the right timing.
