Just found this, Teamliquid's view on sc2 so far. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=75512
Great writeup, I'm happy with the report - there was some talk of "too easy" and "too smart AI" but I'm all for auto-gathering, auto-resource splitting, the MBS, and the surround AI. It becomes more of a macro "big picture" game than a micro game of having to do trivial things like constantly putting workers on minerals or going to each unit building and building individual units.
By the look of it, these guys don't know as much about SC2 as the average SC2Forums member. They're very deep in the camp of, "we want SC1 in 3D." Thedeadhaji's desire to see players having to set pairs of hatcheries to different hotkeys is the perfect example of the inane things players like these seem to get a kick out of. They all complained that the pathing was too good what's up with that? They want Blizzard to make units act like morons (like in BW) just for skill differentiation? How about solving the issue by making units that have a pathing advantage weaker, the ones disadvantaged, stronger... you know, balancing the units, instead of dumbing down the AI? They generally complained that the game was "too easy," even against developers, but I ask, how come they never played each other? These guys are advanced players, "my APM probably stayed around 200" -type players, of course it was too easy! They'd get the same kind of slaugterfest playing average players (yes, even developers) in BW, too. There will never be such thing as "too easy" when it is also "easy" for your opponent.
Totally agree with you 10-Neon. No offense to the teamliquid people, but most of them sounds like they just want SC1 in 3D. This is the year 2008 forgodsake. They want a dumbed down version of the unit pathing just so they can micro? PLEASE. Do you know the rage SC2 will get if they have a dumbed down AI? They would have terrible reviews from all the gaming websites. Most of the casuals that reads the review will then stay away from SC2 if the review is terrible. Sc2 is a totally different game. It requires a different set of skills compared to Sc1. Just because some of the SC2 things will be easier to use doesn't mean the whole game will be easier. Blizzard is adding new unit mechanics to compensate that. All these teamliquid people just want SC1 in 3D. They want MBS and automining axed. On top of that, they complain that the unit AI is too smart. They want the unit AI to be the same as the original SC. Then go play SC1 forgodsake. 99% of the people wants new change that includes a smarter unit AI with new implementation. Who the heck cares that you have 300 APM and can't take advantage of it. This is SC2, not SC1. So your 300 APM will probably not be as useful in SC2 because it's a new freaking game. Oh yea, if you want to read more of their complaints, go read their Q&A 41 page. It's a riot in there.
I had the same exact response as I read these comments. It is Starcraft II, not Starcraft-3D! Modern-day RTS's are more advanced - deal with it.
Might as well brag about your own skill slaying how you slaughtered the competition...the game being too easy ..etc etc. That news excites some fans
I personally agree with them, and i'm no pro player.. I HATED what they did to Warcraft III, as well as thier other games; dumbing down is NEVER a good option, it completely disregards the players who put the time in to out perform others. With the new matchmaking system, there's NO need to dumb down the AI. Players who arn't as skilled would be paired up with people of equal playing ability. Those players with 200+ APM would be paired with others of that skill level. When two skilled players fight, it's those little things the player does themself that determine who wins or loses. Automining is stupid, managing your economy was a massive part of the game, and so many different strategies came out of simply how you assigned your workers early game; now it's a no brainer. Units automatically surrounding?! That is the most hideous thing i've ever heard; I heard the AI was too smart, but that's just retarded. Maybe the AI should build the right units for you and tell them where to go, too; well, technically it already does because it surrounds for you evidently. You shouldn't alter games cater to casuals, you just seperate the casuals from the hardcore players; This 'casualization' is what kept Warcraft III from becoming big on a competative field, well, along with horrid balance and heros. World of Warcraft was ruined because of casuals, there's no effort required for the player to achieve anything anymore.
Can anyone who was at WWI confirm whether you could "shift-tab" units like in Warcraft III? (Eg if you had Marines and Ghosts, would pressing "tab" give you Ghost abilities, and pressing it again give you Marine abilities?) It's kind of weird that you could shift-tab buildings but not units. (And, more on topic, I guess; when two players face each other, they should fight each other, not the UI.)
I agree with Neon. The Starcraft name just isn't going to cut it for most gamers if the game's been dumbed down to cater to the 200 APM micro gods. You can't dumb down a game in 2008 and expect it to stay competitive with all the other releases that will have good AI (DoW2). And it's not as if good unit AI is going to screw the game over to the point where anyone can be a pro. It'll be like in CoH where your units can take cover on their own and fight but still requires micro to be effective (maybe not that good, but you get the point). Automining? Not a huge problem. It only saves players some of the hassle with sending workers to separate mineral patches. The strategy's still there, just minus the clicking. In the long run it's not going to make a big difference. There's no sense in making a game with outdated technology. Remember that Blizzard is a company, they're not the patron saints of gamers. They're doing this mainly to make money, not necessarily to please old gamers. Sure, they'll thank their loyal fanbase, but they're not going to give up the rest of the people just to please them.
I'll admit that this one I was very surprised at - it will take some time (well, actually, it will take no time at all, :laugh: ) to realize that attack-clicking the ground near the enemy will be the best tactic in general for surrounding units with melee units. It will amaze me the first time I do it, in all likeliness. Still though, I think its a great change. You can use the time that they do that in to focus fire (game doesn't auto-do that) or dance tanks out of melee range if they're getting hurt. I will admit that on this one I was shocked and could see some outrage to, though. This is terrible, though. Automining is GREAT! You are not "managing your economy", you're doing something that doesn't belong in a strategy game - speed in getting your worker to the minerals, or splitting your workers in the beginning. They've changed the "manage your economy" thing to golden minerals vs blue minerals as in broad strategic choices, as well as 1 gas vs 2 gas vs refiling your gas, which is what "managing economy" should be.
i seriously hope anyone...ANYONE from blizzard DONT read that article...farout it really annoys me that people like that really want to ruin a game. The new Ai should obviously be like that. And ill tell you why. In real life, noone is that dumb to stand behind someone and wait till the person at the front dies and then attack. People will move to the side and surround the enemy...duh!!!! And what happens if blizzard take these new RTS engines out? (auto-mine, MBS etc). Reviewers are gna flame blizzard for not putting it in thus making the game look bad. They all complained that the pathing was too good...like...wth?
