The only relevant search result was in the shield omnidiscussion thread, which deals with shields in general. I intend to start this thread to focus on solely one aspect of the Protoss plasma shield. I’m proposing to have a fixed (or at least within a very limited interval) shield points(SP)/hit points(HP) ratio for Protoss units to strengthen the racial bond. I would do this by creating categories with common ratios and placing units with similar character together. As reference, I have copied the stats of SC2 units from sc2pod.com and calculated their SP/HP ratios. [table]Unit|SP|HP|Ratio Mothership|400|400|1.0 Archon|350|10|35.0 Carrier|150|250|0.6 Immortal|100|200|0.5 Dark Templar|80|40|2.0 Stalker|40|100|0.4 Void Ray|100|150|0.66 High Templar|40|40|1.0 Observer|20|40|0.5 Probe|20|20|1.0 Colossus|150|200|0.75 Phoenix|60|120|0.5 Warp Prism|100|150|0.66 Zealot|50|100|0.5 Nullifier|40|40|1.0[/table] As you can see the ratios are scattered in no particular pattern. What I’d like to see in SC2 is a restriction on the ratios for units with similar character. I would create groups with distinct ratios as follows: 1. Regular (SP/HP ratio of ~0.6) [table] Unit|SP|HP Probe|15|25 Zealot|55|100 Stalker|50|90 Nullifier|30|50 High Templar|30|50 Dark Templar|50|80 Observer|20|35 Colossus|120|230 Warp Prism|55|85 Void Ray|100|150 Phoenix|70|115 Carrier|150|240[/table] 2. Tough (SP/HP ratio of 1.0) [table] Unit|SP|HP Mothership|400|400 Immortal|150|150 Colossus (upgraded[?])|200|200[/table] 3. Archon (SP/HP ratio of 11.0) [table] Unit|SP|HP Archon|330|30[/table] Alternatively, we could have additional two groups for further distinction of unit character and role: 4. Void (SP/HP ratio of ~1.2) [table]Unit|SP|HP Stalker|80|65 Dark Templar|70|60 Void Ray|140|110[/table] 5. Immortal (SP/HP ratio of 1.5) [table]Unit|SP|HP Immortal|180|120[/table] (The idea behind this is to reflect the unit’s immortal being by allowing it to regenerate a greater proportion of its total life. Lore: they have been fitted with enhanced shield generators in memory of the defiled dragoon shrine and to live up to their names.) The total points of life of each unit is the same as in the original list of stats or at least very close, with a few exceptions where I rounded. My proposal doesn’t make much difference to the gameplay, especially since the shield battery, EMP, and plague abilities are not in the current build, and because damage to shield is calculated with respect to the type of armour the unit has. The adjustments would serve SC2 from an aesthetic and lore point of view. Also I think it looks nice to have 5s here and there Any balance issues would be remedied by tweaking production time, resource costs, or attack/armour/speed stats. ps I wanted to post this a very long time ago (had it written up in Word) but until now we didn't have working tables
Great ideas and some good effort there. Rep up! Bit short awnser for now, but it will do untill this gets going: - I like the idea of set ratios. The Protoss are smart think logical. It would make sense for them to come up with a set ratio when designing a new, erm, unit. - The idea that you have for just the immortal has a little flaw in it. The shields of the immortal are hardened. The whole point of the hardened shields is to make it strong against low shots - high damage per second units. Giving it more shield points makes it less dependant on the hardened shields. I am a huge fan of lore in any game, but good gameplay always comes first. This one just messes to much with the mechanics behind the immortal. - It might be a bit to late to implement this into the beta, so no chance to really test it. Unless Blizzard people are scouting fansites today... I do not know how often they do that. - I would give the probe its own class. SP: 30 HP 10. The probe is weak in attack, and it needs to stay out of the way. With its light armor the protoss must realize that a probe is probably screwed anyway. So: decrease armor even more and use the weight and room they spared for a stronger shield and more carry capacity. -this also fixes the dark pylon lore- What do you think?
I like the idea of ratios. But in your post I didn't get what they are for. Are they for upgrades? Or are they for shield reg?
Neither. They're meant to determine units' shield points with respect to their hit points. Aurora, what I had in mind was not the distinct Protoss orderliness. It was the idea that the same shield generators are equipped to the units (except the mothership, immortal, archon, void units, and upgraded colossus), so they can only generate the same amount of shield per generating unit. The more the hit points the better and stronger the hull/equipment of the unit is, and the more shield generating units that can be fit into it, hence the more shield points. Void units would also share a single type of generator, albeit a different one, which creates 1.2 shield points per 1 hit point instead of the regular 0.6 shield points per 1 hit point, so to speak.
Ah, now I get it. It was a bit late last night when I posted that. Good ideas, but I still think that the Probe should get a different treatment. Under normal conditions it is supposed to mine minerals. But when under attack it can do almost no effective damage, so why not divert power from the, erm, weapon to the shield when under atack? I especially like the idea of the colossus in two classes. It is just as old as other protoss tech, but why not upgrade it for the war? Great stuff.
I disagree. Shields regenerate quickly, and I expect Blizzard will figure out the numbers in beta balancing. A ratio simply takes away a balancing tool from Blizzard.
Hmm the idea is spectacular but... Upgraded colossus has less HP? o. 0 doesnt carrier have enough problems already? i would like to see 260 hp and 200 sp for carrier, or place it in "tough" and make it 230 hp and 230 sp
Alright there might be a slight misunderstanding here. The upgrade for the colossus is a Blizzard idea, called the null flux generator, which adds a certain amount of shields in addition, but I don't know any specifics. Kimera, sp/hp ratios are one tool of balance out of... what, 10+? I don't think this would limit Blizzard in any way.
I second that. Ratios are an easy way to compare units in certain areas. You can use it for dps vs cost, or build time vs cost, speed vs attack rate, all sorts of factors. So why not shield vs hip points?
I would like to see 30 sp and 10 hp for the probe lol at "the probe is screwed anyways" what do u mean the immortal is less dependent on hardened shields? do weaker attack activate immortals' shields also? 0.0
Giving the Immortal more shield power makes it more effective against low damage per shot units. While it should be used against high damage per shot units, like a deployed Siege Tank. By the way, the hardened shield activates only when the unit is hit with 10 damage per shot or higher. Most abilities, like the Yamato Cannon of the BC however, ignore the hardened shiels. They do full damage as against any other unit.
That's not that high, but if you get a ton of guys together. It wouldn't last long. Anyways the Immortal is suppose to be countered by weak units. But the ratio idea sounds good. But blizzard alrighty has a shield system in place. This idea would be best for making maps. It would make SC2 come out later. Blizzard doesn't really like that idea, and neither do we. If you like this shield system, use it for the editor.
Erm, people do like it. Take a look at the pol. :/ And who sayd the big B dislikes the idea? They just used another method. I suppose they are not searching on forums for inspiration all day... @ GMG --facepalm-- You got me again.
It's an interesting proposition, but it's not one that I would like to see implemented. I don't know why, but I'm almost a fan of having varied ratios throughout all the Protoss units. I find each individual unit's ratio interesting, and almost a factor of play, especially with abilities such as EMP and Plague. In my opinion, having a set ratio would just take these factors out of the game, making it more monotonous and standard. While I'm all for uniformity, I think this is taking it too far. Specific ratios will obviously have to be found for each individual unit, as well, which is another factor to consider, and while it wouldn't throw out the balance of the whole game, it would still have an impact on each unit.
I am undecided on this idea, but I would like to point something out. kuvasz I think there is a pattern amongst the units shield ratios you missed, and that Blizzard to some degree is actually working from. With the exception of the Probe if you look at all the units with a 1.0 ratio or above they all have either energy based abilities or are extremely powerful psionicly for another reason. Also, if you look at the units in the .6-1.0 ratio range it is all units that are technologically advanced (relatively speaking). Finally, I do honestly think that the Immortal has the shield ration it does for balancing reasons, the more shields the Immortal has the more powerful its hardened shield becomes (and its already a really powerful ability).
You missed what I said. I said that blizzard, and we won't like it. I'm talking about pushing SC2 back. Or it comes out later. That's what I was saying. You understand now?
