<February/March>Discussion Topic: Map Making

Over the years we have enjoyed watching our community show their creativity and create amazing maps and mods to our games. With StarCraft II we would like to encourage you to keep up the awesome work, so wed like to give you a tool, you will enjoy working with. We have already answered questions in our Q&A but now it is your turn to tell us what your ideal StarCraft II Editor would look like!

If you have a StarCraft II fan site and would like to participate, please email me at Karune@blizzard.com.

Map Making Questions for Fans:

- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?
- How can we support the map making community more?
- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?

- Additional feedback you might have

You can also check out our past Q&A: Map Makers Series to get an idea of where we want to go with the StarCraft II Editor:
StarCraft II Q&A - Batch 18: Map Maker Series
StarCraft II Q&A Batch 22: Map Maker Series
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general-eu&t=15

Each StarCraft II fansite will be featuring different types of questions, so be sure to also visit those sites. All of this feedback will be compiled and sent to the dev team.

Please structure feedback as follows:

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<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>

<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>
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Were looking forward to seeing great discussions on Map Making and Modding!

 

What features would you like to see in the Starcraft II Editor?

There are only a couple of things that weren't in the original Starcraft Editor that I would like to see. First, advanced AI Scripts. There were basic ones, bunker loading, and transport loading - but those weren't enough. I want to be able to have an enemy computer do something at a certain time - like try to launch a nuke or cast a certain spell preferentially. Secondly, I would like to be able to place anything on the map, for instance nuclear missiles and other semi-units.

Other than those picky things, I can honestly say that I was supremely satisfied with the original Starcraft Editor. I loved the easy-to-use interface as well as the simple way triggers were constructed. Blizzard has already said that the Starcraft II Editor will feature old units, DOTA capabilities, customizable terrain, and more - so as long as they make the Editor do more than before I won't have any issues.

 

- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?

I would like all the functionality of the Warcraft III world editor with some improvements to the editors interface and some clarification/simplification concerning the custom triggers (as-is the system works quite well, but it may be hard for some people to learn if they're not familiar with 'programmer speak' - if it was more clarified/simplified/user-friendly, more people could use it and we would see more custom maps/mods). Also, for serious map making and moding, it would be nice to have a more user-friendly system for unit and texture editing - though I don't expect Blizzard to just hand out that much functionality (the smart people that design these programs undoubtedly want paid). So, perhaps there could be a separate "Starcraft II: Editor's Package" at some nice cost that would give people access to whatever wonderful creation tools are in use by Blizzard.

- How can we support the map making community more?

I think releasing an Editor's Package and following with updates would be a big step here. Other than that, a portion of the main SCII website should be dedicated to keeping and keeping track (popularity, version, style) of custom maps and mods.

- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?

As far as the loading and viewing system goes, something similar to that in Warcraft III, however, there should be advanced searching and sorting options. For instance, allow the player to search for all the open games of some popular map, or a particular style of custom (i.e. assault, micro-arena, etc), or some particular version of their map of choice. This would require an organized map naming and classifying system. When the player opens up the custom map search, there could be suggested custom maps based on popularity, or suggestions based on which types of maps the player plays the most.


Yea, I could go on and on and on...

 

I have been making maps and still am making maps in SC I
And there're a lot of things that are outstanding and a lot of things that really needs improvements..
Just a warning .. I'm going to be really specific

- What features would you like to see in the StarCraft II Editor?

Well it's more like what was lacking in SCI map editor... Let's just say that it was impossible to finish a good map quickly without downloading better map editors such as Xtra editor... SCMDraft2.. and Starforge
-Xtra editor gave the player options to place units ANYWHERE... which should've been available from the start. Of course, the interface was copied from the old map editor, so it was good.
-SCMDraft allowed even MORE things to be misplaced .. such as doodads and sprites (which aren't in the original map editor). Also.. it had a fully working terrain pallette where every single possible pallette in each map type was available. This allowed players to create awesome blends to the terrain.
-SCMDraft also opened up the triggers into a script sheet.. which allowed the rather tedious triggering be copied and pasted.. which made life so much ezier
-Starforge was the only map editor done from scratch.. while its terrain interface is worse and somtimes messes up the WAV's .. It is a lot more efficient (as in faster!) in everything. Also.. the trigger system they have is perfect. It is a combination of both the old Player category then comment trigger box but once u enter each single trigger it is a script page like SCMdraft.
-Other programs such as Uberation allowed mappers to go into the nuts and bolts of the map (such as strings and those CPUW slots).. which then one can fine tune the map by getting rid of excess strings and such... Also.. these programs allowed copying and pasting of a map's Location / Terrain / Triggers !!! So one can just take all the locations and triggers from one map and paste it into another with a completely different terrain (can be from ice -> space for example)

-Now to sum it all up.. the original map editor didn't have the script page trigger.. better terrain.. full terrain pallettes ..
copy and pasting.. and hidden AI's.. these were all done in later editors.. However.. none of these editors supported things such as Specific AI's (like the post before said).. a Grid system for locations (like being able to create something NORTH or EAST of a unit rather than just right at the unit) ... .. a way to detect Unit energy/sheilds/hp... a way to efficiently center a location on the wanted unit if there're multiples of this unit (Let's say you have 10 marines spreaded around the map.. the location will only center on the most top left marine lest you do some fancy triggering ) ..
-Something that also was weird was the lag time for preserved triggers.. Somehow ppl came up with the Hyper Trigger.. which takes out the 1 second lag time.. But why do we have this lag time? Maybe u can make it so that one can control the lag time for preserved triggers in every trigger?
-Other things that's weird is how limited the original editor was.. One couldn't place mineral chunks or gas orbs back then.. And certainly later editors couldn't get these placements to be too sucessful either. Also why were powerups always invincible / can only do 1/2 dmg to them per hit?.. it was strange...

-What about how Display Text can only work for the player that does the condition? THere should be a way to make it so that everyone can hear "Player Red DIED" without doing some fancy triggers..

-All in all.. the triggering system have a lot of flaws.. but of course it was a great starting place. I couldn't imagine myself start triggering a map without the old standardized scripts... However.. i think there needs to be an option for more experienced mappers to go on into the scripting world and open up endless possibilities.

- How can we support the map making community more?

This may sound impossible.. but .. a conditioned.. monitored.. prestigious even.. website where mappers can upload their maps. So far.. the only one that's really monitored is Starcraft.org.. and that isn't very good since it takes forever for a good map to be uploaded... so i don't know X.X
Also.. mapping contests would be fun =D

- How would you like to see the custom maps and mods handled in the future?

I think the custom maps right now are handled fine. People choose whether to join the map or not.. and they download it.. However for mods.. there's no way for them to download that X.X soo it's basically restricted to private/clan mods. <-- this is also true for mapping NOW only because there aren't many ppl playing scI anymore
Maybe somehow create a place where mods fit? Let people download mods?

I've never played WCIII before.. but all I know is that any SC mappers can tell you that they have had some rough times with maps.. It's almost like a legendary era.. back in the days where EUD's were still working.. and Hyper triggers.. and Death counts (msg me if u wanna know what these are ) I doubt WCIII mappers ever had to go to these lengths to create a good map!
Make sure SCII gives more options to mappers.. that's all ima say to wrap things up.

~Unholy


Bonus 500 minerals for a great post

 

so this topis will go on till march? bad decision by blizzard. i dont think Map making is a big deal right now specailly everyone wants update and follow up on the main part of the game itself. this wont last too lang and its not even a popular topic right now, its just ashame blizzard did this on purpose thinking that we will be busy discussing on this topic for a very long time and they will be safe with lesser updates. hmp.

they should just made the month of march the predator discussion thread or something.

its already monday now and start of a new week. i hope there will be real update and interesting QandA. ^^

 

One thing i always wish they would add in, and we haven't had them since warcraft 2, is WALLS. I know, its a fairly low tech item, but i just don't think the supply depots are gonna cut it. The ability to make them gates is great, don get me wrong, but i want something that looks like a concrete wall, even if it is just for custom maps.

The only other thing i can hope for, is that they never make a DotA remake for starcraft, that single map ruined alot of creative potential in warcraft 3.