hey guys, so lately i've been building two drones to block gas early game against terran, and then cancelling the extractor and rebuilding it over and over till i have a lot of speedlings to attk. It's REALLY been pissing people off, but it keeps them from reaper harassing me.... IS THIS CHEESE? I don't care if it is....it throws them off their game...
Since you're not really going 'all in' and really only risking two drones, I'm not sure I'd call it a cheese. Plus, they can easily defend against it by simply building their own reactors first, so it's possible to defend against. The rush itself is cheese, but it's the zerg rush, after all, its classic, so if they didn't wall off by the time you tech to speedlings, it's their own fault. That said, if it's pissing people off, people will start to talk about it and it will likely be common knowledge soon, then it will be expected and defended against much more easily. Do you have a replay we could see?
Cheese is in the eye of the beholder. In this case yes some would say it is but hey if it works do it. Especially if it counters reaper cheese.
I would say that it isn't cheese, but if it becomes widespread then it will possibly be changed by blizzard. I don't think blizzard intended the cancellation feature to be used to permanently block gas, but then again it is fairly micro-heavy and can be stopped by just killing the drone/geyser. Plus, you need to send the two drones early and that hurts early game economy which is pretty important, and then theres also the loss of 2 potential buildings so 2 more drones have to die. ANDDD added to that there is the ease with which any T can beat it (wall off, get gas, enjoy economy lead.) So now that I think about it, I can't see this becoming really widespread so that leads me to think that it is even less likely blizzard would take a look at it... but as long as it works for you, keep plugging away lol.
The dictionary lists one of the definitions of "cheesy" as "in poor taste," i.e. something that is generally looked upon as socially unacceptable. Based on that definition, I'd think of cheesing as any strategy that prevents one from actually playing the game, such as bunker/cannon rushes, and Vespene denial to a lesser extent. Such strategies are...well, cheesy. If successful they put one player firmly under the thumb of the other player, and take all of the fun out of playing a match.
It's not cheese. I consider cheese an all-in technique. If it fails, you will most likely lose. Cheese examples : 6 pool, cannon rush, bunker rush (not bunker harass on natural expo). Note though, there a lot of annoying people on bnet misusing the word "cheese." I've seen people calling Nydus worms behind someones base as cheese, during mid game >_>. So far there are 2 things annoying about cheese... 1) Cheese itself 2) People COMPLETELY misusing the term cheese, as my previous example. (You're not misusing it btw. You were just asking so you're cool in my book )
Yea, it really is micro-heavy. Especially on the first stages of a game. But , hey, if it works for you - why not?
Yes it is cheese. Cheese is one of my favorite foods. Only scrubs complain about the smell of good cheese. If you can get two extractors going on his vespenes before he gets 1 reactor then I can't imagine he isn't using a very good reaper build. Seriously, this strategy has been around for a long time, but i've never viewed it as very effective beyond either tech based rushes (e.g. two zerg players fast-teching to mutalisks.....where doing this could potentially give you an early muta advantage and hence some free ovie sniping) or scouting information beyond the point which you could keep your worker alive and in their base. And see, I would disagree that cheese requires it to be an all-in strategy. I did a quick dogpile search and I would go with something more like this: Thus I would probably consider your Nydus worm example as "cheese", although not so much if it were done not as a suprise/secret Nydus worm, but a defended one during an attack one someone's base. Of course, by the above definition, I think there is a higher probability that the person using the cheese will probably lose if it fails, simply because a higher percentage of players using it are likely to be reliant on it and not "their own skill". I think this definition also fits better across the board, regardless of what game you are talking about.
Depends, if you gas steal only to make him weak and therfore pwn him early with lings then it is cheese because you dont actually have any other plan for a longer game or a good transition I should say for mid/late game since you go mass lings. If you use it just to protect yourself from reapers or tanks or banshees, then it is just a strategy. Cheese is an ALL-IN, move -because I won't call cheese a strategy- that people use to get fast wins. But a cheese is also: if it fails, you are 95% of the time gonna lose the game. People call ''Cheese'' some moves people do where they dont actually go for strategy, they just build proxy canons for example and try to win right away. The gas steal could be either a strategy if you use it as a defence, but it could be cheese if you use it to win with a mass lings all-in.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese Liquipidia def. of cheese. I still don't consider the nydus worm as cheese b/c of this quote "The usage of the term "cheese" has expanded to include most "all-in" strategies which involve a great sacrifice of economy, though some StarCraft communities use the term even more loosely to include mid-game strategies." Of course it all depends, but in the way I use a nydus worm in some games, it is definitely not damaging to my economy. It would be more compared to as an overlord drop to a larger scale. A surprise yes, but not extremely damaging to myself. But in all honesty, I guess the term cheese ranges between Starcraft groups. That's why we get some variation in definition between people. Haha
imagine using this as protoss in conjunction with cannon rushing... very mineral tight, but you dont need gas, they don't need gas. zerglings get raped by cannons so he can't counter if you placed them well
This is actually a really good thread, and I think it proves Zerg uniqueness. That perhaps the philosophy of playing zerg is unique to terran and protoss in the sense that zerg don't just focus on their own economy, but also the opponents economy, so a continual production of drone while blocking the opponent or slowing him down in what ever way possible. If you ask me, I think it is pretty much standard play.
Roaches do it from beneath! Oh snap! Er....doesn't have quite the same ring to it edit: pertaining more to the thread, cheese is also not just a sc term nor does it probably originate with sc. I seem to distinctly recall things like triple bolting someone with a red burn deck in MG:TG, which predates SC, being called cheese (nor am I saying that it originates with MGTG, just that it pre-dates SC).
