Earlier Spider Mines please.

Spider Mines. The Nighthawk is currently in possession of them. Problem is, the Nighthawk is
tier 3 - 3.5-ish. In comparrison Vultures were tier 2 in Starcraft.
I'd like to see them more accessible again, and this thread is for general discussion of how to achieve just that. Suggest whatever solution that comes to your mind so that it can be discussed.


Example 1. Give them to the Hellion. It's practically the new Vulture, with a fast speed, bonus vs light and an early spot in the Factory.

Example 2. Move them over to the Reaper. He already throws timed 'splosives, why not give him Spider Mines too? They could run on different cooldowns, etc...

 

Give em to the reapers??? RIGGED

lol, that would be awful.. The helion should work tho.

But also think that the reaper's c4 does somehow of similar damage, maybe hold on to em until you get the mines?

 

Please elaborate on why Reapers with Spider Mines would be rigged and (what sounds like) beyond balancing.

I don't think D8 Charges and Spider Mines have many similarities. The Spider Mine is cloaked and lasts until the enemy detects it or triggers it, which makes it very different in the way you use it.

 

i think that it should be given to the hellion because by the time the nighthawks even come into play the mines wont be very effective because they will have detectors and units to kill your nighthawks before u can drop the mines if your trying to drop the mines near the enemy so itll go off instantly. and, how does the nighthawk drop the mines? i havnt seen any vids, but i cant see how an air unit can put down mines =o

 

If they're given to the Hellion should it like the Vulture come with 3 in stock, limited? Should they do bonus damage vs something?

 

I agree with Lombar. Two types of bombs and cliff traversing for such an early unit is OP, or at least concentrates too much arsenal in one unit, which would show as a boring hole elsewhere on the tech tree.

Mines should be given to a ground vehicle. The best would be the hellion but I've already said why that isn't such a good idea. Other than that the siege tank is just a definite no, viking also, because both have a distinct role that doesn't fit with placing mines (the hellion can actually lure units into mines with its speed). The last vehicle is the thor, but I don't think anyone can imagine a mine laying thor.

Air unit laying mines? Oh please... So, I have no idea where the mines could fit, but they're needed somewhere.

 

lol, thx kuvasz, that's exactly what i meant when i said rigged, but you probably used better words than I would've

And I also agree with guplup... having mines at tier 3.5 sounds ridiculus, and will have none to minimum use.

If they'r not planning on move em of the tier or make em extremely more powerful (which would be kinda weird) I'd say scrap em.

 

Well firstly, I believe that if the Mines are late game, then they're balanced to be late game. They don't need to be be more accessible than Battlecruisers or Nighthawks themselves are. They may be needed earlier on in StarCraft1, but this isn't StarCraft1. There're other example of previously early units being moved to late game, and the Zerg already have Banelings so giving Terran Spider Mines early on could cause a bit of overlap between the two early races. Not to mention that I don't see why the Mines would be useless in late game, especially with Blizzard making early Tier units more viable in late game.

Also, I don't see how giving Reapers the Spider Mines would automatically mean they're overpowered. They could be limited, have a massive cooldown, not do as much damage, a delay before they can be triggered, etc, etc. And just because they can jump cliffs doesn't mean they'd be overpowered, as the point of them is to set up a trap and wait for the enemy, so I don't see how it would be overpowered. Seems appropriate.

As for other means of distribution, none of them are ridiculous. Mines can be laid by infantry, vehicles, air ships and even artillery. In fact, deploying them from air ships would probably make the most sense lore-wise.

 

Agreed that spider mines should be available much earlier in the game. The problem is when it comes to damage, I m very sure spider mines will still be effective. However the real problem is that by the time Nighthawks are available, Zerg n Protoss will most likely have many detectors. Hence by late game, spider mines will be ineffective due to the fact that its invisibility can be easily stripped.

It would be nice if reapers or hellions will have access to spider mines and can replenish them by buying from factories. This will make Terrans more versatile while I am very sure it can be balanced if it proves to be overpowered. And Protoss players also must be reminded that Immortals most likely can absorb most of the spider mine damage allowing Dark Templars to overcome such threat. So I do believe putting spider mines in early game won't be overpowered for Terrans.

In fact this idea can improve Terran detection in early games as their detection is not good during early game. Personally I find Nighthawk spells pale in comparison to science vessels. I would want all their spells to be replaced if possible or just bring back science vessels.

In conclusion, Blizzard should think properly abt letting Nighthawks having spider mines. Bound to be a bad idea.

 

I'm definitely against giving them to Hellions. They're too similar to Vultures as is.

The current system has them costing energy, which I don't like because you could cover the map with them without spending any resources on them. I'd rather give them a small mineral cost.

I do not like the idea of "three, and only three" free mines. If you're just making Nighthawks (or whatever) to make mines, then what do you do when you've put down all the mines you want to put down?

 

I agree with the majority here. This is Starcraft II after all, not Starcraft: Brood War.

Giving Spider Mines to the Reapers wouldn't work in my opinion, since they already have their timed demolition charges. Regardless of whether or not it could be balanced, the timed charges are new, exciting, and have their own strategies - so I think the Reapers are fine as they are.

Giving Spider Mines to the Hellion would tweak the unit to be a little more like the original Vulture. Again, since this is Starcraft II and Blizzard has tried to give a different role to the unit, I'd be against a change like this.

While the Spider Mine was definitely a sweet ability for early game in the original Starcraft, I like where it is now. I am all for change in Starcraft II.

 

Well, fact that Nighthawk has mines is not that bad. Vulture had limited mine-laying capability, while Nighthawk may create them as long you have minerals/energy. Also greater queue of 'place mine' orders in case of Nighthawk means a little less micro'ing.

 

Then call it something else 'cause there's no way in hell a single one will be able to explode on a unit in competitive play.

 

Nighthawks are going to be harrasers with the auto cannons spider mines will be able to protect those cannons while the cannons kill the workers.

We cant have spider mines on reapers because reapers fly in, drop charges, and fly out, their purpose is different. We dont need spider mines earlier we have other units for that. Marauders and helions and vikings.

 

Why not just change the hellion into a vulture with the same attack as the hellion?

 

I think reapers sholud be the ones laying spider mines and should not be able to throw d8 charges, mainly because I don´t like the idea of a reaper throwing a d8 charge at a zealot and not being able to detonate it right away, thus giving time for the zealot to run. And yes, I´m aware d8 are meant mostly to be used against buildings.

 

That's the point of D8 Charges. They're tactical... Not just 'instant boom'! On top of that, yeah, buildings, so it's like saying you want Void Rays to be better against infantry so that Zealots, etc, won't just be able to run away.

 

Reapers are actually Vultures. Quick, raider, good against peons, with secondary 'explosive' attack, however may cliff-jump but have less HP. They don't need also spider mines.

 

This is essentially the problem:

But one should take this into consideration:

If Hydralisks lose strength going from Tier 3 to tier 2 or whatever it is then spidermines will or should be improved.

Most likely their detection radius will be increased but in my mind the better solution is to have the mines aware of each other.

If one of their own gets popped they'll aggressively search for the attacker for a second or two.

 

I don't think making spider mines earlier will be such a good idea. I can see huge amounts of abuse if they move it to a tier 1 unit and it can cause alot of problems for the other races with mineral expansion.