Collossus air attack.

I figured this needed its own thread on the subject.

The collossus due to being expensive and also fairly vulnerable to attack from not just ground but also air is to give the collossus the ability to attack air unit in the form of single target 2x 35 damage attack with a slow cooldown (similar to the thor partical cooldown) either when its first builds or it comes with the thermal lange upgrade justifying that upgrade even more.

Reasons

-the Cost of the unit adds the wonder of why its able to be attacked by air so this would not only give it greater combat potential but also make up for this weakness in the long run.

-Trade off with the thor
example - the thor has a anti heavy attack for ground and a anti swarm for air while this would give the collossus the other in the form of a anti swarm ground attack and a anti heavy air attack and both cost the same and are practicly the same when it comes to health.

-covers a protoss base
in the form of a stronger anti air attack that would assist versus units like battle cruisers, broods, ect but allow the effectiveness to counter pretty much anything.

Think of jack of all trades but vulerable to alot of things and think about it for a bit.

 

I vote no. It's supposed to be vulnerable against air troops, in the same way that the Reaver was. Also, the Colossus is designed to be an assault platform, not base defense.

 

Think of it this way its got the reverse type of attack the thor has it can walk up cliff which the thor can"t but its vulerable to practicly ever units strongpoint and has 50 less health.

 

Well that doesn't solve anything.

The Colossus isn't supposed to be the opposite of the Thor....it's a completely different concept.

 

Yes currently its not but the collossus still fills kind of the same role on the ground as the thor does versus air and as a support unit but saying its like a reaver really dosen"t shed light on the unit simply because its good at attacking smaller units and the reaver is no longer in multiplayer becuase their really 2 differnent units.

-This would justify its cost better

-justify its support role better

-justify haveing the air weakenss

-wouldent take away the warp rays thunder because of the type of attack it has and the ata and atg potintial

-make it much more flexable and usable in combat

I only compair it to the thor because they are both

-heavy support

-cost the same

-similar in health

 

I wasn't comparing it to the Reaver except to point out it's an anti-infantry unit with no air defense.

Its 'role' is completely justified. Anti-infantry. If you gave a GtA attack, it wouldn't be weak against air anymore, it would be moderate. I never mentioned the Warp Ray, but it would be impinging on the Phoenix's support role. And it's plenty flexible.

 

No. Just.... Just no.

Firstly, there's no wonder in why it's able to be targeted as Air. It's because of it's massive damage, health, area of effect radius and range. Its size is what leads to all these characteristics, which is what leads to both its ability to traverse cliffs and it's vulnerability to Anti-Air fire.

Secondly, the Thor has entirely nothing to do with absolutely anything that even remotely relates to any part of the Colossus. There's no trade off, and there's no converse side to the argument.

Thirdly, the Protoss already have enough coverage against any attacks, especially against Battlecruisers and Brood Lords, which the Void Ray is almost exclusively designed to counter.

Fourthly, no. The Colossus is not a jack of all trades. At all. It's a highly specialised and dedicated Anti-Ground units, and giving it an Anti-Air attack is like removing the Siege Tank's dead zone and giving it an additional Anti-Air attack as well.

Additionally, and again about how it supposedly has an Anti-Ground version of an Anti-Air attack, that means nothing. Literally nothing. By the same logic, the Hellion should get a powerful Anti-Air attack.

 

Its not the fact of being weak toward air more so then being attackable by ever units strong point pretty much and if it should remain reamain the way it is then get rind of this weakness.

Im mainly looking at it from a standpoint of how to make it flexable, justified, and favorable as a protoss unit.

ok also this if the thor is so massive why isen"t it attackable by air and also im just compairing it to the strenght of the thor ya its a terran unit but for the cost is so much better then the collossus and its basicly a siege tank of death with a air attack in regards to its ground damage.

Just thowing ideas out their think about it befor you completely shut it down as their have been many ideas what have seemed strange or out of proportion but work in the end either through balance or slight tweeks.

Look at it this way its a unit that disgned to be a counter versus tier 1 units but that being said its a expensive one at that and its a tier 3 unit lowering its effectivness. Yes its a good base raider but so are stalkers and its a bit expensive to be a unit that simple works the way it does.

 

I, too, would compare Thor and Colossus regarding the Anti Air capability.
Given the lore of the Colossus, its high cost, and it's high vulnerability - both from Air and ground attacks -, I say it definitely needs something against air at least. I like the idea of vulnerable jack of all trades.
Or it could work the other way round, by removing - and it's just a suggestion - its air attack vulnerability.

 

It's supposed to be weak against Air. That's the entire premise of the unit. Covering up that weakness is like protecting Zerglings from large area of effect attacks, getting rid of the Siege Tank's dead zone, increasing the range of Photon Cannons so they can't be sieged by Siege Tanks or Brood Lords, giving the Warp Ray a rapid fire attack to deal with small, massed units, getting rid of the Immortal's Hardened Shields so Siege Tanks can shell it properly, and so on and so forth.

Case and point, it is supposed to be vulnerable to Anti-Air attacks. That's how Blizzard designed it. If it didn't have that vulnerability, it wouldn't be half as powerful as it currently is. In fact, more recently, Vikings, which were already the absolute perfect counter for Colossi, were given a bonus specifically against Massive units, of which the Colossus is one of few, in order to be able to counter it more effectively, and this was before the Colossus received it's quite substantial attack buff.

 

Its always been attackable by air even since it had its most powerful attack.

Nothing is supposed to be anything the game is constently changeing and it was originally disigned this way but could just as easily be taken away look at the course of the game most everything has been changed over the course of gameplay and units could be switched around no problem if needed.

Vikeings where gives damage versus armored not massive simply because terran needed that anti armor damage.

Once again think about it befor you jump to conculsions look at other units, how the protoss work, their weaknesses ect.

 

I'm surprised to see 2 yesses. Even if I didn't know anything about the unit or its traits, I'd still vote no simply because the concept of a ground unit being susceptible to both ground and air attacks is unique, further made more interesting by giving it the ability to retaliate only against one of them.

 

Its unique yes but is the reason justified for the collossus to have this weakness and would such a thor be justified to have this weakness also?

Does the collossus also justify its cost? Does this unit work with its current attack or could it use something else? ask yourself these questions.

Is this really that crazy?

 

Firstly, yes, I'm aware it's always been attackable from Anti-Air weaponry. I specifically stated that earlier in the thread. What's your point?

Secondly, even though the game is constantly changing, that's no reason to make changes for the sake of making changes. Yes, believe it or not, certain things are supposed to be certain things. For example, the Siege Tank is supposed to be a mobile artillery, the Hellion is supposed to counter massed Light units, the Void Ray is supposed to counter targets with lots of health, Zerglings are supposed to act as fodder, etc, etc, etc. StarCraft is a game about countering your opponent. That involves both hard counters and soft counters, and that involves having units with weaknesses. The trade off for the Colossus' vulnerability to Anti-Air attacks is its insurmountable Anti-Ground attack, and manoeuvrability. It counters massed Ground units, and is countered by Air units. That's how the game is supposed to work, as it creates strategy, allows for micro and encourages unit diversity.

And you'll find that Vikings do deal extra bonus damage against Massive unit types, not Armoured. They deal twenty to normal Air units, and a whopping forty to Massive Air units, which includes the Colossus.

Source:

And source:

So, as you'll see, the trend of changes to the Colossus and other related units has been one of making it easier to counter Colossi, not making it harder. Vikings have been given a double-damage bonus against them, and their increased shields upgrade, Null-Flux Generator, has been removed. The trade-off is not removing its own weaknesses, the trade-off is the devastating Anti-Ground attack and manoeuvrability that it already has.

And what have I overlooked exactly? From what I've just said, it appears that you're the one overlooking the facts.

Seriously, giving the Colossus an Anti-Air attack is just as stupid and pointless as giving the Void Ray a rapid fire or area of effect attack, to prevent it from being vulnerable to large groups of small enemies, such as massed Marines or Hydralisks.

Having weaknesses is what allowed units to excel in their selected fields, and for the Colossus, that's dealing with massed Ground units, just as for the Void Ray, it's dealing with targets that have copious amounts of health. Getting rid of any weaknesses for any or all units hinders the development of any tactics and discourages unit diversity.

 

now I'm just a simple hyper-chicken from a backwoods asteroid, but if it please the posters i reckon you should have a mix of units, not just spamming one unit to win, because if colossi could attack air, no one would use anything else.

 

Buddy, 2 collosai can take out lots of marines/zerglings, plenty to justify.
With the range upgrade, you got a long range cliff climbing lazer tower that eats low level units like
stimmed firebats>zerglings.

If you mix collosai with phoenixes and some stalkers/immortals (to take out siege tanks / 2nd tier units)
You got a pretty formidable army, not to mention lings will be roasted and marines won't stand a chance.

If thats not enough, why don't we put a portable anti-matter launcher on the collosaus that does 800 dmg vs air with AoE splash and 200+ vs armored. Now ya happy?

Also i totally agree with Timzap
Btw welcome to the forums :yes:

 

well i do KIND OF want an air attack. one that needs to be researched.a weak projectile thingy. maybe like 6 dmg, can automatically fire and around the same cooldown as a arbitor. (ground weapons upgrades adds 1 to damage). ONLY anti-air.

 

What is the point of having a weak attack? Even if the Colossus was, by some bizarre twist of fate, given an Anti-Air attack which dealt six damage at a slow cooldown, it would never be used. At all. Players would rather retreat than stand and fight, because it would just take so long to take down anything, and I'm talking, like, twenty attacks just to take down a Mutalisk. It's not going to be enough to defend the Colossus against Air anyway, so why not use actual Anti-Air defence like Stalkers or Phoenixes?

 

I think they should give it an anti air attack for one reason and one reason only.

Single Player

That's it. All I need is the upgrade available (which it most likely will) as we will see many different abilities and units in single player compared to Multiplayer. If anything I think it should be an attack of 4 second cool-down time, of 4 missiles doing 25 damage with a bonus of 10 to biological units, and no splash.

 

What's single player got to do with anything? As in, why does it need an Anti-Air attack for the single player campaign? It will still destroy strategy, prevent micro and discourage unit diversity, which even in single player should be promoted. Besides, where does it end? Do you want Siege Tanks, Ultralisks and Brood Lords to have Anti-Air attacks in single player as well? Do you want Vikings, Corruptors and Phoenixes an Anti-Ground attack? Do you want the Warp Ray to have an Anti-Swarm attack? And what about all the other units that specialise in one area?

On top of that, the single player upgrades is, as far as we know, a feature of the Terran campaigns, and not of the Zerg or Protoss, which will have their own exclusive features.