Cheeseball tactics

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Strategy Discussion' started by Spacelord, Aug 15, 2010.

Cheeseball tactics

  1. Spacelord

    Spacelord Guest

    I play as terran as does my 2v2 partner, and two times today and two times yesterday a protoss opponent has sent a probe into my base super early and started constructing buildings - a pylon then a cannon or two then a gateway. I've immediately quit the last three of those matches because of how insanely frustrating these kind of tactics are.

    What they're doing is sending in one of their starting probes so I don't have any construction going on yet and can't see out my ramp. By the time I have my 10th SCV constructing a depot at my door the probe is already in my base and has buildings warping in.

    I can't pull SCVs off early because when a protoss doesn't pylon rush that puts me severely behind in development.

    What is a terran to do?
     
  2. Aurora

    Aurora The Defiant

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    As a Terran, your MULE will make up for pulling away that early worker. And if he tries to construct a pylon, grab 4 workers and kill and the probe fast, then go back to mining. It costs him a probe to work, and 100 very early minerals. Your 4 workers might loose a max of what, 10 trips? That's 120 minerals, but it's probably going to be less then that. You'll have been producing more workers in the meantime, while he spends 2 worker's worth on a useless cheese tactic.

    So if he rushes like this, it's not all that bad if you know how to deal with it. If it's not happening, you'll just have your worker right there to start constructing, and a very minor mineral loss overall. Either way it's a win/win situation.
     
  3. BambooPanda

    BambooPanda New Member

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    This thread talks about how to proxy cannon rush, and how to stop it. You can transfer these tactics over into stopping proxy pylons.

    That said, 2v2 is the land of cheese tactics from every Race. You and your partner should practice a cheese-proof macro-oriented build and learn how to stop cheese. For Terran this means a mandatory engineering bay and bunkers and an early two barracks. Once you get o used to fending off cheese, there's a chance your opponents will just drop the game then and there. If not, you'll have a macro build set up so that you two can dogpile one of the cheesers in the mid-game.
     
  4. DREAD

    DREAD New Member

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    Says it all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2010
  5. Suzina

    Suzina New Member

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    don't immediately leave, that gives them the win for their cheese. Instead, use the opportunity to practice your cheese-defense Maybe that means you stop making SCVs to make a barracks super fast? maybe that means you pull 4 SCVs to kill the pylon before the cannon warps in? Maybe you lift your CC and move to the next mineral patch and transfer your SCVs...
     
  6. Parcor

    Parcor Guest

    Phocan rush

    ive used this tactic before and before i talk about how to counter it, spamming one type of unit is more cheese than this as this tactic you atleast have to pay attention, not just attack move onto someones stuff.

    anyways, they way you describe it sounds stupid for the protoss player. bringing in the rush that early doesn't allow toss to quickly overun your base. they would have to wait for minerals and in the end, it would take just as long for them to overrun the base as it would if they had waited until, say, there 12 probe. other than blocking the chokehold asap with a barracks and an scv or something along those lines, i can only see you stopping this tactic by getting a reaper or 2. As he has hit you early game he will not get his phocans up too quickly and you can get your reaper aroun the back of the phocans and kill the pylon. With a little bit of microing you beat the toss easy and they are left with a messed up economy and build order.

    now the more common and IMO more effective method of phocan rushing is building your forge after your 12th probe, then sending this probe in and make like 5 more probes with chronoboost before your attack probe reaches the enemy base. then i start a web of pylons and phocans that overtakes the enemy base. Now you can do several things to counter. you can get 1 reaper as your first unit to protect yourself from this tactic. if you become overrun you can lift your buildings off and start over somewhere else, although the toss could block your landing with buildings or follow you wherever you go. you can also block your chokehold with half built depots until you have some marines to kill any unwelcome probes.
     
  7. KHaYMaN

    KHaYMaN New Member

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    First, it seems like you should either be sending out an SCV to scout or building a depot sooner than at 10 supply.

    Second, you need to get a feeling (i.e. play out and don't leave) for how many workers/rines it will take you to successfully defend against these kind of rushes. You obviously don't want to take off any more workers than necessary, but you need to pull enough to do the job.

    Third, defending doesn't always/necessarily mean killing the offending probe/buildings right away. If you can delay them from doing any real damage long enough until you can safely push them back with a tank, then do it. In fact this works out even better if you can lure the opponent into continuing to invest a large amount of minerals into their cannon rush that will ultimately never pay off.

    Also, I'm not sure since I play Zerg and not Terran, but if bunkers out range/beat cannons that should be another option for you. Again, the theory would be to prevent the cannons from coming close enough to your base to do any real damage until you can get tanks, or just kill the opponent.